I received this Friday. It

I received it this morning. It does not look good for the immediate future of railroad colors.

floquil/pollyscale

i read the letter from testors i'm in shock, they get rid of those paints i will never buy anything from testors or rustoleum paint again, why buy a company then get rid of something that works. the master series of paints isn't good i wouldn't paint a garbage can with it much less model. change happens but c'mon if they get rid of that paint i hope they go out of buisness. this is coming from somebody that has used floquil/pollyscale paints for many years.                                                   i'm off my soapbox now tahnks, bill james

Changes in the nature of the hobby

I'm afraid that this was not an unanticipated development and likely to be only one in a successive line of discontinuations to come. The hobby itself has been shrinking in numbers for some time now and concurrent with this about a dozen years ago there was a major shift in its very nature, from being a group of hobbyists highly interested in building and painting their own models to one mainly about the purchasing and operating of RTR miniature trains and rollingstock. Suggest to most newer hobbyists that to get some special RR car they might need to paint and decal an undec car and they look at you in horror! The same is true in the areas of superdetailing and scratchbuilding.

The craftsman side of the hobby is slowly dying to judge by what one sees dominant on most other popular forums, with the true craftsmen largely withdrawing to small specialized forums. MRH seems to be the only exception to this in my internet experience both in publication and website.

NYW&B  

I don't buy it

I don't buy that the craftsman side is dying. From what we can see, RTR allows modelers to build-in-the-large more than before, but this is not killing the need to kitbash or scratchbuild - or heavens, use paints.

For example, because I can buy all this great SP ready-to-run stuff, I will attempt to build a large home layout focusing on the SP. For cars I can't just buy, like watercars, I will now need to kitbash/scratchbuild SIX of these cars.

If it wasn't for my large layout, I might only kitbash/scratchbuild one of these cars.

If RTR is killing the need to build stuff, then let's look at those scales or parts of the hobby where you can't buy much and you have to build more - like S scale. How MANY S scalers are there? How large a market is there for S scale products? NOT MUCH. How many S scale layouts are there in the world - some, but not a large numbers.

Now look at a scale that has LOTS of RTR: HO scale. How many HO products are there? TONS. How many HO layouts are there, more than a few of which are proto-based? A BUNCH. Every last one of those proto modelers can't buy EVERYTHING they need to build their more-than-tiny-scope layout projects. Every last one of those things they can't buy will need to be kitbashed or scratchbuilt and they will need PAINT.

Sorry, I just don't see it. MRH has at least 70,000 readers and 70% of those said in our reader survey they're building layouts. That's a lot of paint needed for stuff on those layouts - weathering, roads, bridges, structures, detail parts, figures ... the list of things that need painted goes on and on and on.

Yes, the hobby is evolving. Is the need for paint dying - hardly.

Speaking of S...

Joe, since you specifically singled-out S-scale... I model a PRR branch line in S-scale. Yes, we don't have the numbers of HO, or N, or O, or... (oh well, you get the point!), there are still quite a few nice S-scale layouts (and that's not counting American Flyer layouts, if you are into that sort of thing). There is a list of nice S-scale layouts that you can view on the web on the NASG web site:

http://www.nasg.org/Scale/index.htm#layouts

Below that section is also a listing of S-scale videos, if you are interested.

Now, to stay on topic, I love Floquil. I airbrush my S-scale scratchbuilt and kit models using it. I tried ScaleCoat and I didn't like the result, although others swear by it. I guess I'll need to try something else. "Tru-Color" has been mentioned as a substitute.

You can see the S-scale models I have painted on my web site:

http://pmrr.org/Equipment/index.htm

 - Peter

Change Does NOT Mean For the Worse

JodyG wrote:

"I am still trying to pick myself up off the floor...but this is terrible news for us model railroad folks!"

Are you sure it's terrible news?  Personally I don't think it is.  The Model Master line of paints is simply exceptional in my view and they now outnumber my Floquil purchases  three to one.  As I read it they are putting their focus on what is probably a better product line - Model Master. 

Also, the quality and color selection of their rattle can products is at an all time high and again, they state they are putting more weight behind those as well.

If everybody will just step back, relax, and take a deep breath they'll probably find that two years from now the modeler's paint market will be better not worse.

Lance

I agree with Lance

I agree with Lance ... this is more about streamlining their complex, aging paint line to be more lean and competitive than it is about the hobby paint market tanking.

Myself, I stopped using Floquil at least 20 years ago, and I've increasingly been using Badger Model Flex over PollyScale.

So I won't even miss these paints going away at all.

Future and opportunity

Although I doubt this is a hoax or an email cutting off a vendor from a product line (it would be nice if that was true), I believe there could be benefits from this... unless they just close the line and let it rot.  This may give other companies to come in and build their brand better for existing paint manufacturers, or a third party who may not be in the industry yet (Micro Mark for instance).  This would give a company a line to build or expand from that would have the passion to keep these brands and additions to the hobby alive.  I do not think the changes in our hobby has had a negative effect as Joe F. was saying, if anything the addition of ready to run has given us the ability to spend more time on other projects.  Remember scratch building and kit bashing was a design of need in an era of limitation.  I see more craftsman kits and mfg now than ever before and weathering is more prominent than ever (possibly due to the internet and sharing of ideas).  The negative aspect that I could think of would be due to fewer hobby shops and the reduction of ancillary sales for paints.  Similar to impulse items at the check out at Walmart, paints may of been picked up at POS vs. specific orders online that you are planning.  We will see how this will play out, wish I had capitol to make an offer (my wife would probably kill me though!)

Possibility of a master paint chart

Joe F.

      I know this would be time consuming, but how about a master paint chart that lists RR's and the associated colors that best match (or possible mixes).  This way it can be a point of reference for people who want to use a specific brand, or if a color is not made by a company.  This could be done by a panel that is credible in the hobby.

Just food for thought.

I like floquil.

Master paint match list

Way ahead of ya i have a few listed but need way more.

http://www.trainweb.org/mavmrrdigest/grafx/ColorGuide.pdf

ChrisP

Shoofly

Sorry, I did see your post.  My bad.  Great start, are you going to add different brands to each color for selection or paint preference?

"I like floquil"

 I liked the old floquil before testors bought it out and before that I like the 410M  but nowadays I get by with Tamiya and artists and craft paints. The trick to using water based is forget everything you know about using solvent based paint and start all over learning how to paint :> )   . Not as hard as it sounds if one opens the bottles and sprays away.The neat thing about learning water based is the solvent is almost free and comes out of the faucet without smelling like paint or lacquer  thinner. You can even was your hands in it...My local hobby shop must have seen this coming as he sold out all his floquil and pollyscale last year..DaveBranum 

Testors

The craftsman side of this hobby is dying.That sounds like something the idiot that decided I wanted RTR for my hobby came up with.,Well I guess now would be a good time to be looking for other companies that will produce our paint with out any excuses.

Master paint chart?

A great concept, I have seen these put out by historical societies. I applaud the intent of anyone wanting to contribute a list of colors, but in practical sense, it's not going to be accurate. Here's why:

Getting a panel of 'experts' to agree on a correct color is like herding cats.

• We all see color differently.
• Railroads purchased paint in batches with subtle differences in shades; example, AT&SF yellow in the 1980s, many units had a lighter shade of yellow, which oxidized quickly into a chalky finish noticeably different from other locos
• The manufacturers can't agree on paint colors either: Compare recent Kato N scale AT&SF units with photos, or the models from Atlas and Intermountain; they are noticeably more orange in tint (to my eye).
• Historical societies can't agree on colors; trying to determine the correct 'mineral red' on a given railroad is nearly impossible. Differences between paint lots, photo exposures, and film or digitial camera sensitivity make this a futile exercise.

What is the answer? The same as for model builders in any hobby in any scale...look at the prototype, study it (or accurate photos) and replicate the color of a specific prototype car or loco per the photos. Give a modeler a range of colors, and they can hit on the faded New York Central Jade Green finish they are looking for...or CSX Blue. Any color from Floquil or other manufacturers are subject to interpretation, for the reasons stated above.

Follow the photos, and model what looks good to your eye, and you will hit the mark every time. Over the past decade or more, I have seen nearly-empty Floquil and Polly-S paint racks in hobby shops, which never have the colors I want, and what little of these products I have left were purchased more than five years ago. I work almost exclusively with acrylics, and what little spray work I do is with rattle cans or Model Master paint - which is great to work with.

I agree, this is ultimately good for us all...if it helps Testor Corp. survive and continue to develop new products, that's good for the hobby and every modeler. Boycotting them for responding to the realities of the changing marketplace helps no one.

(my two cents worth)

PS - Dave Branum posted while I was writing this, and I completely agree...acrylic paint opens a whole world of possibilities for modelers, is safer to work with and in many cases is much cheaper than lacquer-based paints. You can even get away brush painting locos in acrylics...that's sacrilege! The switcher below was painted with cheap craft paint and a good brush, in multiple thin coats - then received a Dullcote finish. I buy most of my paint at Michael's for two bucks a bottle.

Verne, Spoken like a true

Verne,

Spoken like a true artist

It's true that people should paint by color and not by the label. I agree 100%. I started my color chart by matching to Athearn RTR colors as I had a few projects that required minimal touch-up. I wanted to remember these colors so I started saving a list. I switched over to MM and Tamiya paints back in 2002. I really like these and in many cases I can find a color that has a gloss version of it, saving me an additional cote of paint to achieve a glossy surface for decaling.

MM and Tamiya seem to have very fine pigment particles so I can dilute them a lot for weathering. Tamiya colors have a very nice matte finish to them comparable to Floquil IMHO.

It wouldn't be too much to match to floquil paint chips and just alias the MM colors that match. The only problem is...Floquil's colors changed dramatically from 1989 (remembering SP gray was really dark then) to 1995 (SP Gray and BN green looked entirely different, one bottle was lighter (new) vs the older bottle (dark). It will be like hitting a moving target!

I think the list should be used to just get a modeler in the general ballpark and then they adjust from there to match their proto better.

ChrisP

Are they dropping railroad colors?

Or are they just streamlining the product line and getting rid of excess brands?  When they drop Floquil, etc does that mean that they drop railroad colors or will the colors be available under the Testors label?

My guess

My guess is the railroad colors go away to be replaced by generic colors, no more "SP lark gray" or "boxcar red" ... instead it will be "flat gray" and "light brown".

You will need to make the translation - which means color equivalent charts will become popular.

Look for paint colors that "look" correct!

Yes, the loss of the of those paint lines will be a bit of a setback to some, but when painting something, I usually look for a color that represents the prototype I'm trying to replicate.  Having said that, almost all painted items at some time or another will vary in tone and shade given the fact that natural weathering takes place.  So, that UP Armour yellow that has faded could easily be matched by finding an alternate that is close.  I think Joe is right in the fact that Testors will streamline its color line and offer generic colors that we can use to mix and match to more closely represent the effect we are after.  

An idea

Here's an opportunity for somebody to start a cottage industry.

The idea is to take a base color paint like they do in paint stores and add a drop of color to come up with the color you want. We know that there are some modelers who will baulk at mixing there own and would rather have RTR colors.

Bernd

I will miss the water-based paints

It figures as soon as I finally built a spray booth to use polyscale water based paints they become discontinued.  Not sure if I will want to mess around with the other paints because of the smell.   Hopefully someone else will come out with a water based paint.

Ken L

paint cross reference chart

Hi all

Several years ago I ran across this website.  It has a lot of good info about painting and finishing in general and also has a cross reference of Floquil, Model-flex and Polly Scale paints.  So if it is any use to anyone here is the link to the cross reference chart and you can look over the rest of the website if interested.

If this link doesn't go directly to the cross reference chart, look on the left hand side for "Paint Colors Cross Referenced".

http://www.hosam.com/

Hope it helps someone.

Why not just shift the Floquil colors over to MM?

I see no reason they couldn't reformulate the ones that sell best and add them to the MM line. 

Now if they could just use this "new liberation" to improve the Aztek line...  Anyone ever have much luck with their spatter nozzle?  Weathering?

Look at Model Flex