.

You're looking at it the wrong way.

You have 1000 freight cars.

They're not all made by the same manufacturer.

Hence, some manufacturers use a wider truck, or deeper pockets in the truck, than others do.

While Intermountain will work well as a general standard, there will be cars where they simply do not function, being too tight, or they fall right out of the trucks.  In either case, you either have a car that moves stiffly, or a car that derails because The wheels fall off.  Either example is Not Very desireable!

This is a matter of operation, and in order to achieve flawless operation, you really do need to pay attention to these kinds of details, within reason, when it comes to your fleet.  Don't look at them as 1000 freight cars.  Look at them as 1000 individuals each with their own set of parameters, and then group them by those parameters.

So you'll be best to plan on getting a couple of the others here and there should you ever need one, so don't be so caught up on using Just One kind of wheel.  You're getting them a couple at a time any ways, so that will help you amortize a couple of each as you use them up.  It's just like your freight cars, they aren't all just One kind of freight car, and they might not even all be riding on 33" wheels, and while it might be nice to think you can change out all the trucks, it's more reasonable to fit the shoe to the foot...

A couple from here, a couple from there, so long as they all run fine...

Good Points...

...so if I accept your premise, I should go with the Reboxx Wheelsets. So the next question is how do I figure out which specific lengths do I need for each set of cars.  I wish Reboxx would list the specific models  and which wheelsets fit that particular model instead of classifying them by truck type. **SIGH**

Ken L

...

I'm saying you should go with the shoe that fits.  Most days, Intermountain.  Special cases, Reboxx.  If it comes with metal Atlas, stick with Atlas.

The easiest way to know what type is to build an index, one of each length.

Use this index as you plan your acquisition orders, going car by car; put something like a tab or a note card with the number and road and type of each car that you've measured so that you remember what axle you decided to get for what car.  When you get 3 cars or 6 cars or enough to justify an order, or you're eyeing to get a batch, sort the cards by width and then send out an order for those that all need the same axle, or you're planning a large order, gather up the cards and fill out the orders.

If Intermountain are cheaper, and they work well most of the time, I'd use them as much as possible...

The Reboxx web site has

The Reboxx web site has charts to see what size axle is required for each manufacturer and bogie type.

http://www.reboxx.com/Documents/Wheelsets/33%20Application%20Chart.pdf

That chart lists by Truck Type not Car Type

The problem for me with that chart is that it lists what axle fits by truck type not car type.  Which means i have to know the difference between each type of truck, and that type of information has never interested me that much. 

Ken L

I would buy a cheap set of calipers.

Harbor Freight has a digital caliper for less than $20.00.  Measure the length of the stock wheel set from axle point to axle point.  Any replacement set should have the same length.  Next compare the taper of the stock axles to the taper of the ends of the replacement axles.  You want the angle of the cone to be the same as stock.  Finally, if your freight car came with metal wheelsets, stick with stock.  The only wheels that need to be replaced are the plastic ones.

that would be an excellent plan except!!!

I already have gone through and threw out all the original axles! :-\  If I had them still i could use the set of calipers I have!

I had storage issues, so I went through most of the kits I have, and consolidated the kit parts when practical, and in the process threw out any parts I wouldn't use, like the horn hook couplers from blue box Athearn kits, and the plastic wheels.  So I have boxed myself into a bad corner here. **SIGH**

Ken L

...

If you want to get these cars rolling, you will have to learn the difference between each truck, be it by figuring out who made each truck, or by buying one or two of each axle length and manually measuring the truck that way.

There is no way around the process.  I'd start with the Intermountain wheel sets and use them where they work, seeing as how they're the most common length.  From there, perhaps you'll be able to true some trucks up with the truck reamer, but it would be better to have the right axle length from the start.

Why would one "throw out the orginals" ?!?!?!?!??!!??????

That blows my mind that you have thown out your original axles.  Even if you didn't intend on using them, you would at least have them as backup parts, ebay fodder, or at least trade value to someone who would use them!  Better still buy that caliper and get real good at identifying what type of truck you have.  You have along road ahead of you and I wish you luck.  Might start by posting some photo's on here as we can all chip in to help out with identifying the most common ones for you.

Freight Car Truck Types

Google is your friend.  Type in "freight car trucks" and you'll get a whole slew of links.  Many sites have photos and descriptions of the different styles so you can compare them to your model trucks to determine what they are.  It really isn't a big deal....give it a shot.

-Jack

What is Intermountain's Axle width

Can someone tell me what is the axle width for the Intermountain Wheelset? 

Thanks

Ken L.

Get out your calipers or micrometer and measure the distance

Ken,

Most folks aren't rivet counters until they "get into" the hobby.  When you hit a problem that really effects your ability to run your equipment and start to realize that you need to start to pay attention to the things mechanical, electrical, historical, etc., the you really learn what you need to know to enjoy and excel in the hobby.

The reason why I am asking..

...is because I don't have any on hand to measure, and I am trying to place one order for all my axles through one of my hobby suppliers.  This way I don't order Reboxx Axles that are the same width as the ones intermountain offers.  I have been told they come from the same place, it's just that reboxx offers the different axle widths, while intermountain just has the one.

Ken L.

Reboxx

Reboxx itself recommends a 33-1-1.000 wheelset for InterMountain Andrews trucks originally supplied with plastic wheels.  That's sort of the IM run-of-the-mill freight car truck. Chart says the original axles for that truck were 0.988 - 0.997

Your original post mentioned Accurail 55T hoppers, which would probably have come with Bettendorf trucks (arched top, two roughly triangular side openings) that were fitted with plastic wheels having axles 0.984 - 0.992

Reboxx recommends a 33-1-1.010 for those.

The chart is at http://www.reboxx.com/Documents/Wheelsets/33%20Application%20Chart.pdf

It really sounds like your safest course is to order their sample set of various lengths and see what tests best for you.

never assume

That's not even a safe assumption.  Some manufacturers buy truck frames from other suppliers and stick their own wheelsets into those frames, and they don't fit properly.  This often results in poor operation, even with metal wheels in a seemingly decent truck.  I don't have an easy answer for identifying trucks, though.  Sometimes trial fitting is the best bet.

There is also a tool available from both Reboxx and Micromark which allows you to ream out the bearings of plastic trucks if they are too tight.  It won't help if they are too loose, of course.

I have the ream tool..

Actually I have two of them.  They are a great tool.  My friend used them for his freight cars and it improved performance drastically.

Ken L

Or punt

I have replaced a large number of my trucks with Intermountain sets regardless of the axle length, can't recall having measured one.  If it seems tight I give the axle reamer a couple turns until it rolls free.

My trains still seem to run.

Pretty much once you use the axle reamer, you have altered the stock depth of the axle hole in the sideframes anyway.

I have only found one or two trucks where there was any noticeable "slop" of the wheelsets in the sideframes and even that has not created any noticeable performance issues.  The "correct" axle is better, but the consequences of "failure" in this case are not that high.

Not That Hard?

Assuming we're talking HO, Intermountain or ExactRail wheels will fit nearly every plastic truck.  Exceptions include the old Intermountain trucks that originally came with plastic wheels (awful one piece castings that were out of gauge), so those need to be reamed out to accept standard IM or ER axles (I've done this to several cars).  Another likely problem would be some older Athearn trucks, for which the IM/ER axles are too short.

MRH sponsor Accurail sells trucks (without wheels) in packages of 12 for $14.98 or 50 for $54.98 list http://www.accurail.com/accurail/parts.htm .  Many modelers like using those with IM/ER wheels since the combination rolls well, and the Accurail trucks can be substituted on cars where you don't want to mess with all the different Reboxx axle lengths.  Train shows can also be a good source for cheap trucks.

I can understand the appeal of this, but there isn't necessarily that much difference in performance between different manufacturers of machined metal wheels.  Performance of IM vs Reboxx wheels will likely differ in such an immaterial way that there's no real point in having them all the same.  I'd suggest using IM/ER wheels in most trucks and either substituting different trucks or Reboxx wheels in cases where a different axle length is needed.

I have about 400 cars, equipped with metal wheels from various sources, and run ~20 car trains. I don't notice performance issues arising from all the variation in manufacturers, and I'm pretty picky about how things run.  They all work together.  Use whichever ones fit, and employ a truck tuner as appropriate.

How old is "old" for Athearn Cars..

Rob,

Are you talking about Athearn Blue Box cars? Or cars from an earlier time period  I have a few hundred Athearn Twin Offset Hoppers.  I mean if I have to replace them for good performance I will, but I am trying to build and operate this railroad on a budget and don't want to spend money I don't really have too.  Going to all metal wheels is worth the price.

Thanks.

Ken L

Old Athearn Trucks

Yes.  Most of my Athearn blue box era trucks received Kadee or P2K wheels before I changed to Intermountain or ExactRail for new wheelset purchases.  I find that I can't just drop the latter two brands in as they're somewhat too loose.  Try yours and see with IM wheels first and decide from there.  Mine may be a problem because they're old and worn and yours will be fine.

not all replacement wheels make good replacements

When our club started out over 20 years ago, we subscibed to the then-current notion that Kadee wheels were a vast improvement over stock plastic wheels.  We replaced all of our wheelsets with the Kadee wheels.  Then we built our first helix.  We were dismayed to find we could barely drag 20 cars up the thing with 5 units.  We decided to pop the plastic wheels back in, and 35 cars would go up behind 3 units.  The Kadee wheelsets were a terrible fit and caused tons of friction, though the cars didn't wobble with them installed, which you could not say with stock Athearn wheels.

The problem was not the quality of the wheel, but rather the angle of the end bearing.  Too much of the axle end was rubbing inside the truck bearing.  The newer Intermountain style wheels had smaller axles and more pointed ends, so they had less surface area to cause friction.  Since we changed to Intermountain wheels on most of our equipment, we have had much less rolling resistance, which is critical to getting long trains up a helix.

Interestingly, when we first started buying Kadee freight cars, we found they rolled poorly even with Kadee wheels in Kadee trucks.  We started replacing them with the appropriate length of Reboxx wheels and then they rolled effortlessly.  The last few years of Kadee freight cars have seen a great improvement in rolling characteristics, though, and we haven't found a need to replace the current production wheels at all.  This includes both the older sprung trucks as well as the new three-piece plastic truck on the latest models.

Nowadays we have gotten rid of most of the Athearn cars, and almost everything we add to the fleet has pretty decent metal wheels to begin with.  The only big exception was a fleet of Proto 1000 newsprint cars which all came with really sloppy metal wheels which would tilt so badly on a helix that they tipped over if they were at the front of a train.  We are still trying to root out the last of those cars and replace their wheels with Intermountains.

The point is, we have found it important for smooth operation under our conditions to ensure that wheels fit in their trucks well and that cars roll with as little resistance as possible.  It takes some effort to find the best solution for each car, but it pays dividends in better performance.

2 web sites to check

2 web sites to check out.

http://www.ezbizwebsite.com/quickpickorderformpage.htm(good pricing, great service and a lot of info.)

and a ton of info on trucks at... https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bz_ctrHrDz4wMkpBYUw1RjhmRkE/edit

Note: right click on the last link and choose "save link as" and save it on your computer.