What I've Tried

I have a phone system we use for the majority of communications with the dispatcher, but we also have some radios for use primarily between the end points of the layout and staging.  I picked up some of the Motorola Talkabout sets sold by Radio Shack and others (I noted that Radio Shack had the best price at the time, plus my local stores had them in stock).  The price I paid in December was roughly $20 for a pair.

In reading reviews posted online, the only recurring complaint about the Talkabout radios was their lack of range, which is really meaningless in the train room.  I've used these on other layouts and haven't noticed any issues with interference with radio throttles, or of the signal being blocked by operators or normal basement obstacles.  They do seem to be compatible with other FRS radios, as they work with a couple other brands at one layout where I run frequently.  They do have provisions for a headset, but I'm not sure about a separate microphone.

Depending on session length and frequency, battery life should be reasonable.  I accidentally left one on after a session, and discovered it late the next day.  The batteries still survived for one more session after that before running down.

My thoughts

Matt I am no expert on these but here are my experiences.  I tried to make this as quick as possible.

On the layout I operated on for a couple of years, we used the FRS system with the Motorola brand radios. These are very common with many RR Ops sessions. You can get your own radio and take it with you. I have my own and I found it was compatible with every other layout I visited.

The FRS have several channels as well as PL tones. IFIRC, they have something like 22 channels so you can have one for each yard and one for the dispatcher.  Private Listening tones are basically sub channels for each channel making bleed over/ cross talk from other users less likely. We never had any issues with that.  We never really had any issues with reliability or interference worth mentioning. The room was always full, DCC, Smart phones all over the place etc.in a large metropolitan tech area and no real issues performance issues.

The only things even worth mentioning is battery management, it really isn't a headache per se, more of just another thing you have to deal with in the world of MRR'ing. It’s worth having an extra radio or two just in case Mr. Murphy shows up for the Op Session. A couple of spare batteries are nice too. Most of the FRS come with reachable batteries and charger.  They work well. I have been to several op sessions that have lasted 4 or 5 hours and it wasn't an issue if they were all charged the night before. The layout I mentioned hosted many Op Sessions for Div meets, Bay Rails and a recent NMRA convention and saw a lot of use by a wide variety of users with really no problems. Some of these were multi day schedule ops and as long as they were charged the night before they worked well. A having spares is always nice.

Really the only down side to these worth mention, IMHO, is keeping everyone OFF the "VOX" option. VOX allows you to keep the mike in the open mode where one person’s mike is always On. You need to leave the radios in the "Push To Talk" mode where you need to hold the mike button down as you talk.  In VOX you will get a lot of feedback squelch that is irritating.

In the long run you will want to get the headset option for them as they are well worth it.

Overall they are a great com set for ops sessions.  They are basically Plug n Play. 

In one of the op sessions I dispatched on Bob, the owner, recorded the radio traffic.  He edited the dead time out and posted file of the radio traffic for one train.  This should give you an idea of the radio quality you will get.   http://www.cmrailroad.com/Photos-37.html

As a side note I also take mine to the river in the summer.  I have used them as far away as a ½ mile.  I know some folks use to take them to places like Disneyland but now a days there are so many folks with them that they overpower the system, even with all of the channels and PL tones.  If you live near some place like this, you might have issues. The batteries have lasted for several days as the talking part is less than during ops sessions.

I use radios for work that has to have good communications. That said,  I would give the FRS for Op Sessions a 5 star rating

Steve

Edit: They are also available in multi unit packs.  Besides a bulk buy they come with multi unit chargers, a plus for desk space and plugs in the wall

No problems

Hi Matt,

I'm using Uniden FRS radios without headsets, since I was told that many operators didn't like wearing them, but I'd be interested in hearing more about your choice to use them.  Maybe I just got some bad advice.

I've had no problems related to the radios themselves, but the occasional issue has cropped up with users not holding the transmit button down firmly when talking.  Signal strength seems to be good, as we live in an old home, and even with two 1' thick brick walls separating my crews from the dispatcher, I've never noticed a problem.  Battery life is also good, as the others have reported.

FYI, to lend a little more prototype authenticity to operations, I updated the timetable page I issue to crews, replacing the prototype channels with the radio channels I selected for my FRS units.

Regarding a desktop base radio that's compatible with FRS units, I'd be interested in anything you learn on that topic.  I've been wanting to build one similar to that shown below (at the prototype IAIS's Iowa City dispatcher's desk) for use in my layout's DS office, but have never found a way to do so.

modeling the railroad boom

mic would be easy enough - just get a good lapel mic, an old swing arm lamp, some screw down cable clamps in an appropriate diameter, and a cord for the mic that reaches the FRS radio somewhere on the desk close by.  Then plug it into one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Audiovox-Station-FRS1000-14-Channel-Two-Way/dp/B00005MITH/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/175-3070204-6156149

Which, FWIW, is the only FRS base station I can find on the interwebs.

Motorola Talkabout 250

The one I have is about 20 years old. Got it for Girls Scout camping trips and it worked very well for that. It sat in a drawer for the past ten years, but a fresh set of batteries made it come to life. One nice thing this has is that the mic & speakers are seperate plugs. The headset I had had a molded two prong plug. I bet with a little kitbashing you could set up a seperate desk mic. Clarity is very good on this one, even with my hearing aids.

Doug Maddox

Bethlehem Branch

Gotta have a base unit?

If you absolutely gotta for sure have an operational base station, you could look for a used GMRS unit.  The FRS bandplan shares seven channels (and is interoperable) with GMRS.  GMRS, though, requires an FCC operating license, which FRS does not,

... In the real world, though, I'd be worried about having a GMRS base station pumping out a few watts of UHF RF into your operating area (or into your DCC devices).

FRS/GMRS with a headset

On all the layouts I operate on FRS/GMRS radios are used for communication, headsets are operator choice - I generally choose yes, since between work and other things I'm used to them. 

The only time I've seen problems with them has been with a poor radio/antenna/microphone/something in the base station (which was fixed), and people come on VOX (mike is locked on) every so often. You get used to the repeat offenders. 

Layouts have varied between full, nearly 1000sq ft basements (Joe & Charlie) and a system that actually had the dispatcher in the basement of an adjoining building (Columbia, Cascade & Western).  Distance never seemed to be an issue. 

I've got two fully functional radios and one more that I bought at a garage sale that I need to test out. When I eventually get ops running, I intend to use them, although quite honestly, raising our voices slightly would probably do the trick....

BC&SJ and FRS

No technical problems using FRS on the BC&SJ.

I prefer headsets because it greatly reduces train room noise over having 12 radios all blasting out the track warrant being dictated by the dispatcher. Different head sets fit different heads.

Ditto me on the turn-off-the-VOX-mode. We really don't need to hear your conversation with your brakeman about how frustrated you are at work and it blocks legit transmissions.

Get radios that don't make a "bleep" noise every time you press the transmit button. Those noises get pretty annoying. Rick Fortin got so tired of them he doesn't like foreign FRS radios in his train room and provides his own for all crews.

I've never experienced a range issue in my 1100 sqft basement even with 18 operators present.

FWIW

Charlie

Thanks for the comments

Thanks for the comments guys.

One issue I wanted to address was that 'bleep' tone. I could see where that would be enough to drive someone insane after awhile. Charlie, you had mentioned Rick Fortin has a way to eliminate this. Could you expand on this such as - is this a feature that can be turned off, are there radios that don't do it, etc.

I know we were leaning toward the Motorola series for both pricepoint & availability.

Concerning a base station - I'm aware of the Audiovox unit. Thanks for the info Phillip. I would seem that base models aren't all that popular as they are all OOP. As mentioned I could opt for a used GMRS mobile & have the RF power reduced by a reputable radio shop - that may become an option.

Feel free to keep the comments coming. There's actually 2 of us (my layout & another decent sized ops layout) making the switch & looking at a combined outlay of 1K+ for radios/headsets/etc we'd like to have as much intel as possible so we can avoid making a bad choice.

-Matt

looks like you can get them on eBay

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=FRS+base+station&_sacat=0&_from=R40

An actual FRS base station

An actual FRS base station would keep you 100% legal. A reputable radio shop will probably not risk FCC fines supplying you with an inappropriate radio device.

As for interference, there shouldnt be any effects on the DCC system. Im my experience FRS radios have very sloppy RF design and weak front ends, i.e. they dont reject nearby RF signals. 99.9% of FRS users will probably never notice any ill effects with their radios, so no problem there either.

I would strongly advise to get the headsets if possible. Having 1 person transmit right next to someone else with a radio will probably cause feedback, in the form of a high pitch squeal.

As for the roger beeps, some brands of radios allow you to turn that off, some cant. Ive found the higher end models are better in the overall quality and ability to turn on and off certain features.

Steven 

Thank you

Matt, FWIW, the Uniden radios I mentioned have the ability to turn off those beeps and configure several other options.  If I remember correctly, I got them at Target for around $37 for a 3-pack.

Thanks to those who provided feedback on headsets.  I see the benefit of them in a more crowded environment, but I typically have only the dispatcher and one or two two-man crews operating at a time, so there's not a lot of traffic.  I have the radios configured like my prototype, allowing the yard crew to use one channel and the road crew another, but in practice, everyone seems to stay on the road channel throughout the op session.  The benefit we have over the prototype is that the conductor/engineer pair on each crew can communicate with each other face-to-face, cutting way down on radio traffic.  Not much need for separate channels in a low-density operation like mine when that's the case.

I'd never heard of FRS base units before this.  I'll try to keep an eye out for one.  If anyone knows where I might find one, I'd appreciate a heads-up.  Thank you all.

Joe,

Ive only every seen them on ebay. Manufacturers like to sell things the majority of people want. 1/2 watt from a portable radio, or 1/2 watt from a base, most people dont want to be tied to a fixed point, most of the reason why not many people have land line phones, we like the portability of our cell phones.

I am dying to get a Boulder Creek defect detector and interface it to a radio.

On the railroad Im going to build some day, if the engineer of a long train needs to stay up with the engine, he cant very well stand next to their detector to wait for the report, so having the detector transmit the report over the radio is prototypical and practical.

Steven

they work OK

We have been using the FRS radios on the Sudbury Division for several years.  We have had some issues with them, but they are better than the old Maxon style we were using before.  One thing to keep in mind in our situation is that we are in a quanset hut, which is basically a big steel can.  This results in signals bouncing around inside more than in a wood or brick structure.  We also have a lot of walls inside our space, which can affect radio waves.  We also run 7 hour sessions, which is probably beyond the amount of time you can expect a rechargeable radio to operate continuously.

We found that some brands are better than others, and it basically boils down to "you get what you pay for."  If you get the cheapest, they will not work as well as a more expensive brand.  The rechargeable batteries tend to die before our session ends, so we try to have extra radios on the chargers.  We have also resorted to using non-rechargeable batteries in some of our radios, and they normally will fit right into the slot where the rechargables would go.

We also get a lot of cross-talk.  Since we run 3 channels at the same time, we do get bursts of static sometimes on radios tuned to a different channel when we are transmitting.  There are also places where we have trouble transmitting and receiving in our space.  It is a 2000 sqft building, with lots of walls and many fluorescent lights in the line of sight between radios, and this will affect performance.  We found that some radios have privacy code functions which we found did reduce cross-talk, but it also sometimes made it hard to pick up a radio at all from some places.

We don't use a base station for our dispatchers, though that would certainly be something worth looking into.  We can't say there has ever been issues using the radios alongside our NCE radio cabs.

FRS Base Station

C Crane radio has a nice base station

http://www.ccrane.com/more-categories/emergency-preparedness/midland-base-camp-radio.aspx#.UXhKpWOnbD0

BTW Joe, your layout is a great inspiration to me. I always look forward to your posts and pictures.

Guys: I have used both the

Guys: I have used both the Maxxon personal radios and more recently FRS radios in OP sessions since the late 1990s on my clinchfield and now N&W layout. We used the Maxxon radios with headsets like Allen McClelland used on his layout which I visited and operated in 1996 for communications from dispatcher to crews and crews to crews. These were successful. After I had several radios dropped and broken I switched to using the FRS style radios which we use now. The addition of headsets is essential to prevent feedback from radios being too close to eachother. I do have the headsets but have not tried them yet on the FRS style radios. If you want to hear radio transmissions during an OP Session to can view this video:

Bob Helm

Virginia Southwestern Railway, 1956

Batteries & Licenses

Base station

Thanks very much for the recommendation and kind words David.  I've been involved in a lot of updates lately that either aren't complete or aren't very photo-worthy, but I hope to make a lot of progress throughout May in preparation for an op session weekend at the end of the month, so hopefully more posts will follow.

IAIS Radios

I would think you wouldn't need headsets.  I think I talked to the dispatcher maybe 3 times in the whole session, i wouldn't think I would need a headset for that.  All the "radio" communication with the yard was face to face since everybody's 2-4 feet from each other. 

The only advantage to a headset would be to keep your hands free while you copied the warrant.