Try This

The Mike Dannemann backdrop book from Kalmbach has some advice specific to Appalachian scenery, and general information from other scenes that may also be helpful.  http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12425.html

Hmmm

Since I decided to use only sky for the Jacobs Creek branch (at least so far), all I can do is suggest some ideas.

If I had to do it over again, I think I would have used thin masonite painted a green color which captured the color of the trees in the region just in front of my blue sky. For the closest, I would've used WS T45 fine grass sprinkled on the paint before it dried, to give it texture.

Just give it a try

First backdrop Ive ever painted, using craft paints and just tried some ideas. Used four shades of green for the trees. It really created some depth to a narrow shelf.

Backdrop

Nice work, Randy.  The middle ground trees are best imho.  The back mountains are fine.  You might want to consider a bit more contrast on the front row of trees more in your style on the middle row of trees.  Just one opinion.

Bob Ross

 I've heard Bob Ross has some how to vids somewhere.....Mike

Thanks

Thanks for the comments...

Sscaler: The darker green in the front above the scenery shell is background for where my trees will be to add depth to my foreground trees.

Interested

Guys, thanks for all the helpful comments. Sorry I didn't respond earlier. Didn't realize I had these replies until tonight!

Randy,

Thanks for including the photo of your backdrop. That's really helpful.

It looks to me like you painted a solid color first...maybe a grey on the far mountians, a medium green on the "middle" mountains, and maybe a dark green on the foreground mountains? Then a contrasting second tree color layer over that? Yellow greenish on the back, dark green on the middle, and a lighter green on the foreground?

Was that your technique? I'm no artist, so this painting stuff is all new to me.

Paul Krentz

N&W Pokey District, Sub 1 3/4

Bob Ross

Mike,

Tried a google search for Bob Ross. Found lots of western mountain how to videos, but none for an eastern appalachian mountain. Any idea where the videos you mentioned might be located?

Thanks!

Paul Krentz

N&W Pokey District, Sub 1 3/4

Re: Bob Ross

I may get reamed for this, but I don't care for Bob Ross painting techniques for backdrops.  I've seen many a backdrop painted using his methods, and nearly every one to me has looked more like a Bob Ross painting than a logical background for the modeled scene in front of it.  He used large brushes, and his brush technique and color mixes aren't tuned to matching colors or textures of model scenery products.

If you have no experience painting, there are a lot of things the late Mr. Ross can teach you.  Use caution translating what you learn onto your layout as much of it doesn't transfer directly.  His aim was to show you how to have fun painting, not to create something that looks realistic or appropriate behind your layout. 

I describe it as dabbing

I started with a pale green, I just kept mixing till it looked right so I cant give the exact color. I was looking for that faded gray green of a hazy distant hill.

As I painted, I basically dabbed the colors to represent trees using a small brush with one color, then added a second color on top after. I rotated the brush and tried to keep it all random. A third color was added later to break up the image. The more frazzled the brush gets the better it does for painting trees.

This is the only area that will have this type of view, the rest will just have the tree line behind and the first mountain behind it. The reason is its very rare to have rail lines out of the deep valleys. Most follow water routes and the view is of the valley. My layout is based on the Clinchfield so a long view is always restricted by the mountains.

Ive collected numerous shades of green and tried several of them, all I can say it try it and see what looks right to you. The Appalachians have deeper greens and lots of foliage and that famous blue ridge haze.

Attached is another pic that shows some more backdrop, again the darker green at the bottom is to add depth to the tree line. The sky is actually a pale blue gray.

If I can paint backdrop anyone can, give it a try, if it doesnt look right try again.

Another pic

Camera on the phone blurred it a little bit but this pic shows how the darker tree line adds depth to my trees. The trees and foam are all home made, letting me have any color I want and cheap easy trees is a must!

This is a early pic of my first finished scene and the dark tree line will be the "normal" for how Ill do most of the backdrop. I start with the darkest green then highlight on top of it with lighter shades. All using the dabbing stroke.

That real tall tree in the back was later changed to a shorter height.

One thing to remember

Keep in mind that the Appalachian Mountains were formed by erosion, not plate tectonics, like the western U.S. mountains. Therefore, generally speaking all of the peaks should be about the same elevation.

George

A question of perspective

An aspect that has not been mentioned is perspective. I spent 24 years living in West Virginia. Where do you expect the viewer to be standing in relation to the railroad? If you are trackside along the C&O in the New River canyon, then you only see a wall of trees and vegetation.

In Morgantown, WV, the B&O ran along one side of the river and the Monongahela ran along the other side of the river. The valley sits at a point below the surrounding plateau that you can's see out of the valley easily. Here's an image that illustrates the point. The view looks west with the Monongahela tracks on the far bank and the B&O up front, with the Monongahela River between. It's not as deep a valley as the New or Kanawha River valleys, but the topography restricts the view.

Let's look at some numbers. The river in Morgantown is about 900 feet above sea level. The top of the ridges (a plateau really) in this area sit between 1300 and 1450 feet. A 400 to 500 foot difference in HO scale is 4.5 to 5.75 real feet of height for your backdrop or mountain scene. Even if we compress the height by half, it can be an imposing backdrop to the model trains.

So the viewing perspective is key. If you are modeling a scene where your operators are near trackside at the bottom of a valley, then panoramas of distant ridges are not common. The furthest you can see is up and down the valley. Even the sky is at a sharp angle to view and the background would be a wall of trees and vegetation.

Eric

To follwo up Eric's comments..

Unless I am modeling a valley with a river scene, or similar such scene that the railroad is crossing perpendicular to said valley, I have few areas that will have a sky backdrop at all.  It will be mountain trees all the way to the top of the scene.  Every trip I have made to Appalachia the only time I see sky or distant mountains is when i was at the top of a ridge.  When I was towards the bottom of the mountains, all I could see were trees on the slope, no distant trees, no sky. Just the mountain slope in front of me.

Ken L.

Keep in mind that the

Actually it was both.  Ancient tectonic collisions followed by eons of erosion.   They're much older than the Rockies.  Given enough time, the Rockies will look like the Appalachians.

Steve S

Looks Great

Dear Randy

This looks great. Honestly, I think this has just the right amount of detail. The background shouldn't be the focus, just a tool that helps a viewer better enjoy and/or understand the foreground.

One day if I ever build a second layout, this is exactly the type of backdrop I'd like to have.

that is my issue. I am at the

that is my issue. I am at the bottom of the new river.

-Doug M

Backdrop

I understand the comments about not being able to see very far over ridges. On my layout however I have some farily good size "mountains" but they don't extend all the way across the backdrop like a ridge. So in between those mountains was where I was thinking about painting the distant hills, just to give some depth to the scene. I realize that's not geologically correct, but our layouts are all too compressed to begin with, so I think the extra depth will give the sense of a bigger layout.

Here's a picture of the kind of valley I'm talking about on the layout. I don't have anything painted here yet, but the distant hills I penciled in seem to add a lot to the scene in my opinion. 

Paul Krentz

N&W Pokey District, Sub 1 3/4

 that is my issue. I am at

 that is my issue. I am at the bottom of the new river

Yeah, painting with Tony Soprano is much more dramatic... not quite as subtle as the Bob Ross method

John

Keep in mind???? and Backdrops

Therefore, generally speaking all of the peaks should be about the same elevation

Tell that to someone watching a train roll across lowlands (~1000') in Main with Mt. Katahdin (Mt. Baxter 5268') in the backgrould, seeing a train negotiate below the granite faces of Crawford Notch through the Presidential Range (Mt Pierce 4291') in New Hampshire with the rocky treeless top of Mt. Washington (6288') in view, or envision a Little River Railroad logging train descending past The Forks of the Little River (~2000') in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park with the lower ridge lines leading back to Thunder Head (Rocky Top - ~5500'). I often drive two minutes down the road and stand on the lake shore (Tennessee River) looking East and watch CSX trains roll by with low rolling hills in the background leading ones eye back to a panoramic view of the Smoky's. I can drive West and stand on ridges that rise only 500' above the NS tracks as they, hugging 400' sandstone cliffs, begin the climb along the Emory River valley with Frozen Head Mountain (~3000') in the background (Part of the old Southern “Rat Hole” Division).

The point being that there is a tremendous variety in Appalachian terrain. Search for some of these views online, or better yet take your camera out and shoot some “background” shots and you will find almost unlimited material to guide you in painting your backgrounds.

...not geologically correct

Paul: You can often find “geologically correct” views of mountains visible up a valley. There are locations near Townsend, TN where one can look up through the Little River valley and see Thunder Head (about 7 miles away) in the background. In the 1920s and 30s you could stand above the Little River Lumber sawmill in Townsend and watch log trains move through the river valley and possibly see the switchbacks which almost climbed to the top of the stripped western slope of the mountains. Standing on and looking East from one of the old trestles in Twin Mountain, NH you will be looking through a high valley towards Mt. Washington (about 11 miles away) where on a good day you can see the cog railway. There are great views when there is snow on the mountaintop and Fall or light green Spring colors in the valley. And there was a spectacular view of Mt. Katahdin (again with snow on top about 20 miles away) framed by low lying hills along the Bangor and Aroostook tracks near Millinocket, Main.

So paint what you like, and it will be correct. And if some geologist complains, remind him that there is probably an exception.

Ken K

Paint What You Like!

Ken,

Thanks for the go ahead! Just what I needed to hear. Now if I can just get my artist painting technique down to something I'm happy with, which was what started this post in the first place, I'll be all set. 

The comments everyone has made about Appalachian scenery have been helpful and interesting. I live in Minnesota and have only been through the Appalachians once a long, long time ago, so all I have to go on are your comments and pictures I glean off the net. 

Thanks,

Paul Krentz

N&W Pokey District, Sub 1 3/4

Paul, Here are two examples

Paul,

Here are two examples from last year - to give you some perspective, these were taken in August about an hour after a torrential downpour.  This is about 2 miles north of Jim Thorpe on the old Lehigh Valley main heading north towards Bear Mountain.

I've never been a big fan of

I've never been a big fan of painted backgrounds, even though I have the skills to paint them easily myself.

I'm going to be creating backgrounds for the same part of the country for my planned On30 ET&WNC layout. I'm stealing a concept a local layout has, where the mountains are modeled on cutout flats that are shaped like the far-away mountains, then flocked with ground cover to looks like far off mountains with trees. I'm going to push this further with doing another layer behind that with much finer ground cover (maybe even painted with course paint) in a much lighter shade to suggest the haze of distance. A layer of trees between the end of the layout and the background should blend together decently for what will be a slightly deeper shelf layout.

P51 - I did something simular to what you are suggesting