Starting Off

OK, so I wanted to try it out, so I visited True Scene's website (the maker of Fusion Fiber).  On the website, Bill shows us the basics for using Fusion Fiber, so I watched the video and started the experiment.  Bill is also a regular poster on this forum, so if anyone has specific questions, add them here and I'm sure if I can't answer, Bill will.

So I began by mixing up some coloured water to stain the Fusion Fiber.  I used Woodland Scenics' Liquid Pigments as I had them on hand and I kind of have a feel for mixing them to get the colour I want.  I used some raw umber, burnt umber and yellow ochre to get a colour I was happy with.  I plopped some Fusion Fiber into the water and began mixing it up.  It seems like it doesn't take too much Fusion Fiber in the water, but mix and add some more and mix and add some more and before you realize it, there is a lot of product in there!

I understood fairly quickly I had too much water, but I wasn't worried because as Bill states, if you don't use it and it dries up, you just add water again and mix it up.  This is one of the primary advantages of this product in my opinion.  No having to worry about limited set up time like you do with plaster.  Also, there is almost no mess, unlike plaster.  Clean-up is easy in the sink, you don't have to worry about coating your pipes with plaster (not that any of us would do that).

After mixing up a bunch of product, I grabbed my spatula and started spreading.  It wasn't as easy to spread as I had hoped, but as I figured out, I still had too much water in the mix.  I should have added more product.  While spreading, it tended to float around a lot and I became a little annoyed as I'd get a spot really nice, start applying next to it and it would all shift.  Again, in hindsight, I'm fairly certain I had too much water in the mix still and should have added more product.  That, combined with the fact I was using it on my finished plywood and drwayll surface, there wasn't a lot of "teeth" for the mix to grab onto.  

I took Bill's advice and grabbed a roll of drywall tape and put that down.  This worked quite a bit better for holding the material where I put it.  I also came to the conclusion that my layers needn't be as thick as I had them, though there is no problem making them thicker - they just take longer to dry.

I'll continue in another post....

Working it Through

Bill also mentioned how the product will actually hold your scenery materials in place without glue, so after I put down a section of Fusion Fiber, I started adding some scenic materials, including sand, very small rocks and fine ground foam.  This didn't go quite as well as I hoped.  Some of the scenic material clearly got embedded into the Fusion Fiber, but some of it did not.  I decided to try gluing some of it down on the Fusion Fiber and leave a section unglued and just try adding a bit of water to soak it in to the Fusion Fiber.  The glued stuff stuck well, but the water-soaked stuff wasn't stuck down consistently.

Here is a photo where you can see, after I ran the vacuum, where the scenic material didn't stay with only the water soaking used:

You can see right beside where the ballast is how it didn't stick with just the water, as well as just before the static grass starts.  Some of it did stay in place near the static grass, though, so it may have been that I didn't soak the area enough, but I definitely soaked the area beside the ballast well.

You can see, also, that the material with the colour mix looks like a fairly convincing ground base.  I thought the fibers would be too obvious when I was putting it down, but once dry, it does look quite good.

I'll continue with more posts, photos and thoughts later tonight or tomorrow.

Let it dry. Give I at least 72 hrs

Thanks, Bill

I think what you say is basically what I learned in this trial.  I had too much water (or not enough material) in the mix which was my primary issue.  I found the material spongy three days afterwards which I didn't like, especially trying to add trees and rocks to it.  It took over a week to dry completely, so that tells you right there how much extra water I had in the mix.  Even with those issues, once it set up, it does look convincing to me.

Here are a couple more photos:

You can see from the above photo with very little sand/rock material and a bit of ground foam how the texture looks.  I really like the finished look below with the static grass, ground foam and trees.  Planting those trees demonstrated one more learning, aside from the fusion fiber - trees don't plant well into plywood.  I will be using a foam base on any future layout.

Finally there is this photo:

You can see the static grass applicator worked well.  I did put a glue mixture down as I did this sometime later.  I was going to try it with just wetting the Fusion Fiber, but I wanted to see how well the applicator worked, and it worked very well.  You can also see how you can just feather the material to the edge and then apply the fascia right up to it, so if you have to remove the fascia, it won't affect the scenery at all.  If it doesn't quite snug up, you can just trim it back a bit with a hobby knife, but I lined it up and it looked fine.  I didn't take a picture though.

The Verdict

I hesitate to come to a complete verdict as clearly I have some more attempts to make, but from this experiment, I've determined a couple things:

1. If you don't like mixing plaster and having short setup times, this product is for you.  I got comparable results with this product compared to Joe's vermiculite mix from his videos.  However, I had a lot less clean-up time with this product and was able to work more slowly and smooth things out more easily.  

2. I will use this product again, perhaps for all my ground base on the new layout.  I don't know how it compares in price to plaster, but I can't imagine it being much more given that I covered this area (and a fairly heavy coat of it at first) and still have a lot of product left in the bag.  At $20 per bag, its not super inexpensive, but the flexibility and ease of use of the product (two things high on my list of product attributes I look for) is better than anything I've tried before.

One other note - this product doesn't crack like plaster tends to do, nor do you have to worry about the old product taking the water away from the new product and giving you issues like putting new plaster over old.  Yes, you can work around it with plaster, as many demonstrate, but its just one less thing to concern yourself with.

Ultimately, those who are comfortable with plaster and like to do things as cheaply as possible probably aren't going to jump to Fusion Fiber, but for those starting out and not wanting to mess with a plaster base and all that mixing and cleaning, give Fusion Fiber a try - it will only cost you $20 which is a fairly cheap experiment.

Feel free to ask questions, whether to me or directed at Bill as I'm sure he will follow this thread and answer anything people have.

Also note, that Bill had no idea I was putting this together and I'm not being paid for, nor was I asked to do, this thread.  I saw Fusion Fiber over a year ago for the first time and wanted to try it after seeing how it was used.  I have no doubt that if I get the water/fiber ratio correct next time that I will have even better results than I had this time.  

I love the stuff!

It's easy to mix, easy to use, easy to clean, and easy to fix. If I don't like how something looks, I simply re-wet the Fiber and either remold it or scrape it off, no problems.

Your experiment looks great. I've never used it with drywall tape, good idea.

I mix it with craft store acrylic paints. When I've had trouble getting stuff to stick, I super-infuse it with WS Scenic Cement.

Here is a scene with Scenic Fiber base, you can see it peaking through the sides of the hill. I really like that you can pre-color it.

I Like...

I like the look of the Fusion Fiber.

Two things from Bill's post that stuck out though.  Needing to wait 40 minutes between mixing and applying the product, and 72 hours drying time.

I don't recall having the same wait time with the plaster based ground goop I have used.

On the other hand, I like the sound of being able to let left over product dry and then re-wet it to use it later!

Interesting thread that I will be watching for further developments.

You can look at it both ways

Kevin, you can look at it from both sides and determine which is more advantageous for you.  I like the long set up and dry time compared to what I felt like was rushing to get the plaster down, then clean up, then wait for the plaster to dry, then mix more, get it on fairly quick before it sets up, then clean up.  With the Fusion Fiber, there is no rush and if the doorbell rings or the kids call you, you don't have to ignore it because of the drying time.  Its a bit more relaxing to not have to worry about it setting up within minutes.  And, as you say, you can make a big batch and then if you don't use it all, just add water in another week or two or whatever.

But those that are comfortable using plaster are still going to use plaster, and that's fine.  I'm lazy by nature and the fact that I have little clean-up time and can do little bits here and there after mixing up a batch really appeals to me.

Pro's & Con's

Dave,

Yes, it does seem like a "six of one half a dozen of the other" sort of situation.

Having always worked with plaster, in fact, Plaster of Paris in the past, I am quite used to the time factor when working with the plaster based mixes.

The cleanup has never been a big problem for me in the past but as I mentioned, not needing to worry about leftovers is a nice feature of the fiber.

The cost does not seem prohibitive either.  Does your $20 cost on the bag of fiber also include a portion for shipping?

I'll have to look at the cost of a similar amount of ground goop to compare.  What size bag of Fusion Fiber did you purchase?  What sort of yield will you get from the bag?

Thanks for sharing your experience with us!

Maybe Greg can Pipe In Here

Greg, can you share a bit about how far a bag goes in your scenery (which looks really good, by the way)?  I know I could have made it go farther than I did, but I was using it to build up the slopes from the plywood to the half inch drywall as well.  The bag says it will yield 15-20 sqare feet, which I think I will end up with about 15 square feet now that I've figured out how better to mix and apply the product.

The $20 does not include anything for shipping.  I bought it with my large order from Scenic Express, so it was amortized against a bunch of other things, probably a couple bucks at most, but by itself would add quite a bit to the cost, but the bag itself still isn't all that big.

Not bad...

The level of coverage does not seem too bad for the price.

Thanks for the info.

Odd's are if I were ordering some it would be in addition to a number of other supplies as well.

Compared to Sculptamold?

Anybody have experience with how Fusion Fiber compares with Sculptamold?

Compared to CelluClay

Has anyone tried to compare the Fusion Fiber with the CelluClay product (as used by Mike Confalone - Allagash Part 2 in May 2012 issue)? The CelluClay seems to have similar properties.

Have to see in person

How does it hold on steep and vertical surfaces?

Hi,

    I'm modeling mountain areas that have steep slopes.  What is the

cling factor of Fusion Fiber on very steep plaster of Paris surfaces? I assume it

is related to how thick it is mixed. Another question,  can it be shaped and

molded during its drying stage for small overhangs, etc?

Dick Haines

Big Stump-Little Lump Lumber & Ore Rwy.
(The B. S. Line)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dick

I haven't tried it on vertical slopes, but if you watch Bill's video, he does use it on smaller vertical slopes with no problem.  See the video here.  However, with Fusion Fiber there would be no need for plaster of paris at all.  If you are using screen as your base, it should just sit over top of it, but there are other methods that would probably be better than screen, like foam or cardboard strips covered in masking tape, though I'd think you'd need some tooth (maybe drywall tape) to get it to stick to the masking tape.  Something I might experiment with, though I plan just to use foam as the base.

You can also see in Bill's video that you can sculpt it as it dries.

Fusion fiber texture

The posted photos look very realistic, but appear to be for an HO scale installation. How coarse is this material? My experience in N scale is that most commercial terrain products are way too coarse for N scale, with "sand" being the size of bowling balls in N scale!

Thanks....

Tom Knapp MMR#101

My Photos are N Scale

I don't really think it matters what scale as you put your ground cover (rocks, sand, grass, etc.) over top of it to enhance the texture and make it "scale" if you will.  Its a realistic base to start from, regardless of scale, in my view.

Scuptamold

I have not used this product personally. It appears to be similar in consistency as sculptamold.  If you are thinking about price and I  always have to consider that. I can buy Sculptamold for about $7 after coupon at the local hobby store..

 I have also been using finely sifted sawdust lately. its usually free. Mixed with 50/50 white glue/water . It spreads easily  and dries rock hard. You can add your scenery while it is still wet.

If you ever need to remove it just soak the area with water and let it sit.. Iit will turn back to a putty.. 

My photos are N-Scale also

I bought one bag about two years ago and have used half of it over 12 feet of modules. I don't need a lot because most of my scenery is flat and the the small hillsides are generally sculpted from Styrofoam then covered in Scenic Fiber. One thing to note is it doesn't stick well to bare Styrofoam.

I've used Sculpt-a-Mold. I like the Scenic fiber because it's lighter, easy to color, reusable and has an infinite working time (just re-wet and re-shape).

Greg

Ground Goop

I'm really very comfortable working with Plaster of Paris, as opposed to Hydrocal -- hard to find in big bags and not really necessary unless it's self-supporting, as in Hard-Shell.  But for inexpensive ground goop, which goes over the plaster,  I use Homasote dust and waste, saw dust about a heaping cup each, a cup of vermiculite and half cup each of earth latex paint and Elmer's.  Good long working time, hardens up really well and pretty much dry in 24 hours.

Bernie Halloran

NYK&W