CV217?

Dear Ron,

Um, who pointed you to CV217? According to the Tsunami Tech Reference PDF

http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/Tsunami%20Diesel%20Technical%20Reference_1.13.pdf

it would appear that the motor-control CVs run out at CV214
(Page 92)

???

I am also intrigued by the fault description. Trying to break it down.

For starters, I'm assuming that the "sections" mentioned are _completely_ electrically isolated from each other, both at the rails, _and_ at the track buss?
(if the "section gap" includes turnouts, crossovers, or anything other than a simple single track end-to-end joint,
then these present opportunities for "sneak paths"...)

I also assume from the description that the fault occurs when the 630 is _completely_ sitting on one section or other, _NOT_ when it is "stradling the gap" between both sections?
(If "occurs when stradling the gap", this may simply indicate that either:
- both "sections" are not _completely_ isolated from each other somehow,
OR
- the trackbusses from each booster are possibly not wired "in-phase" consistently,
causing a weird "booster-VS-booster" polarity issue)

With the above being assumed "all OK":

- the "sections", are they traceable back to being powered by given specific/seperate individual boosters?

If YES:

- disconnect the booster powering the "problematic" section,
connect it to a simple piece of flextrack mounted completely seperate from the layout or any already-laid trackage,
place the 630 on the standalone piece of flextrack,
and use the existing throttle to test-run the train

Does the 630 misbehave running on the 3' length of flextrack?

If YES = track "section" is not at fault,
possible booster,
command-station--> booster,
or booster-config-VS-loco-decoder issue

If NO = booster is likely OK, problem exists somewhere within the "problematic section" worth of wiring

- I'm not personally familar with Digi systems,
but if it's possible to run the above-identified "problematic booster" as a standalone DCC system,
with a throttle connected directly to it,
(IE isolate the booster, and get it to issue it's own commands, rather than "slave" from another unit)

try running that on a standalone piece of flextrack.

630 still mis-behaving?

YES = either bad booster, or booster-VS-decoder config issue
(does the booster in question have a "track voltage/range/scale" switch?)

NO = Booster and decoder are likely OK, suspect something amiss with the "slave connection" between this "looks like it's misbehaving" booster, and the upstream Command station commands.
(again, not personally familiar with Digi systems, but most "multi-distributed-booster" systems require all "slave boosters" to be connected in strict phase with the "master booster", and in some cases require a dedicated GND wire to be connected between the boosters...)

Hope this helps give you somewhere to start looking...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS for the benefit of those who may try to follow-along and help, any chance of both a track-plan,
_and_ a control-system schematic?

Tsunami CV 217?

Ron,

I'm puzzled by your statement of changing the value of CV 217.  I didn't recall Tsunami diesel decoders going higher in value than CV 214, so I took a quick glance at the current SoundTraxx  manual, but I'm not seeing CV 217 there.  I'm wondering if this is a new CV that's been added.

What is the function of this CV?

-Jack

TSunami/Digitrax problem

Thank you for the replies.  Some clarification:

The mysterious "CV 217" is mentioned several times in Google inquiries but it isn't on my Decoder Pro 3.0.

This is my third life-layout; a point to point single track (WM Dutch Line) with muzzleloader staging on each end.  It is divided roughly in half by (believe it or not) a pair of Atlas plastic insulating joiners - no other layout connections of any sort between the two divisions.

I'm fairly convinced this is a (newer) Tsunami/Digitrax issue since there are none with the 20some other diesels on the layout (Atlas, Genesis, Athearn, Stewart, Proto2000 (one with QSI) using a mix of Digitrax and Soundtraxx decoders).  The non-issue division is run off a DB 150; the problem division off a DCS 100 - their cases are grounded together per a suggestion from Digitrax.

As I mentioned, the C630 lurches and blows the horn intermittently in the problem section - always in a lurch-lurch- honk-honk sequence.  The problem starts within five feet of entering the DCS100 section and disappears soon after the loco enters the DB150 section.  Sound is normal (awesome actually) in the DB150 section; again, intemittent with repeat start-up sound in the DCS100 section.  Touching the superstructure reveals a definite start and stop of the motor almost like a pulse.

Again, thanks again for any and all suggestions.

Ron

Probably the decoder is

Probably the decoder is reading the DCC signal as a freak DC signal, and the the motor starts and stops and sound the horn every time it feels like the polarity changed. If you only run locos in DCC disable the DC mode on the decoder and see if it still gives you problems...

You may want to try resetting

You may want to try resetting the decoder.  All of the Prof's logic notwithstanding, I have had two instances of the decoder misbehaving that defied logic, and where a reset solved everything.  Its an easy fix - assuming you haven't modified the daylights out of the CVs.

From Tsunami's manual:

"Program CV 30 to 2 (or CV 8 to 8) using either Service Mode or Operations Mode"

An Undocumented CV

I spent a little time this morning digging around in search of that mysterious CV 217.  Well, there were several discussions out there concerning it, and it is indeed apparent that this is an undocumented CV in Tsunami decoders that has existed at least since 2006.

What is interesting is that no one seems to have uncovered the bona fide purpose of this CV.  I've read that it is used to "toggle the BEMF function on and off", that it is a "filter", and that it is used to correct a condition "where a Tsunami equipped loco can cause a non-Tsunami equipped loco in the same power district to take off and run wild"!

Possible values seem to be 0, 2, 3 and 4, with 2 being the "recommended" value to use.

Also interesting is that all of these purported purposes were said to be obtained from conversations with SoundTraxx personnel.

I'm not saying what is right or wrong, or what works or doesn't, especially since I've never even heard of this CV prior to yesterday.  But it does seem to exist.

While I can't recommend a value for this CV, I would suggest that you try writing it to your decoder using the Single CV Programmer which is part of DecoderPro.  Find it under the Tools> Programmers menu selection.  When you get the programmer called up, you can click it's Help button if you need explanation to use it.

Hope this helps a bit.

-Jack

Don't know where you live, Ron.........

.........but Soundtraxx is always at the Train Show in Springfield MA in 2 weeks.  They have techie guys there that could help you with the CV 217 Enigma.  I also understand if you call them, they are very accommodating and helpful.

Peter

Tsunami/Digitrax problem

We have a winner!  Changed CV 30 to "2" and now the RDG C630 is hauling freight from Lurgan staging into Hagerstown like it should!  Hats off to Milt - I'll have to drink a Minnesota craft beer in his honor.  I agree that the Soundtraxx (and Digitrax) folks are great to deal with - I try to catch them at TrainFest  (I'm in north central IN).but have to strongly resist exploring all the new toys they bring....

Again, many thanks to all of you who responded - great group!!

Ron

1/2 of a fault condition

Dear DK,

I agree that if:

- the decoder has it's "operate on analog" CV set ON

and

- the DCS100 Booster (or some freak wiring issue downstream of it) is not firing "clean DCC" signal to the track

then yes, the loco could be cycling between "I'm on DCC, ...I'm on analog ... I'm on DCC... I'm on analog..." behaviour.

Turning the "run on analog" function off may break the _fault_recipe_,
(IE would appear to resolve the fault,
and would fit the symtoms insofar as "it's only the 630 which misbehaves, all other locos appear to work OK"),

but would not resolve the root problem that the Booster in question (and/or downstream wiring configuration) may not be operating correctly/providing 100% valid DCC signal to the track...

By performing the above-suggested "Booster straight to flextrack" test,
we remove the "downstream wiring" from the equation,
(IE create the literal embodiment of the oft-touted "2 wires to the track" wiring scheme)

and reduce the diagnostic down to
- Booster
- Loco/decoder

If that "shows no fault condition", then we've almost certainly identified a wiring issue somewhere between the booster and the loco.
(break out the DMM and soldering iron... ).

If however, such a simple-single-piece-of-flextrack test _still_ gives the "stuttering" behaviour,
(and when the 630 is swapped for a "known good" TSU-equipped loco, works correctly),

then we've almost certainly eliminated the "between the booster and the loco" wiring from the equation,
and therefore got the basis to start chasing "decoder set to run-on-analog VS bad booster output" conditions...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

PS given that the OP apparently has a JMRI programming track available, it would appear that the following would be a possible test routine:

- readback all existing CVs out of the 630 into JMRI
- save as "iffy 630 config" file
- If there is a previously JMRI-saved User-config file available for the 630, reload that
- Retest the loco with the "reloaded"/refreshed settings
- If still no joy, do the "factory reset" (CV8=8?) and retest

PPS Sidenote: I'd be interested to hear what the PSUs are for the 2 boosters.

- Are they powered from one power supply, or do they have seperate supplies?

- If seperate, is the "iffy booster" supply notably different?

- Is it possibly not giving enough volts or amps?

- a Booster with a "low spec" (low voltage) PSU can give poor DCC signal to track, which can confuse a "run on analog" decoder as to whether "I'm on analog, ... I'm on DCC..."

- Similarly, and I don't think we've had an answer on this yet, does the "iffy" booster have a "track voltage" or "scale" switch? Setting such a switch, if the booster is so equipped, to say "N scale", can drop the voltage at the track, which again may cause the "indeterminate control system" issue...

Sorted, kinda...

Dear Ron,

Glad to hear you got it resolved  

However, by setting CV30 to value "2", you've effectively cleared all user CV values.
IE you found a "shotgun solution" to the immediate problem,
but not actually identified _what_ specific CV/value/function/condition was causing the issue.
(There is still the possibility that you've broken "the recipe" for this particular fault,
but some/most of the underlying fault conditions may still be lurking in wait...)

You mentioned you have a JMRI programming rig available.
- Have you used it to program the 630 previously?
- If YES, did you save your "user configuration" within JMRI?
- If YES, it could be interesting to see a "CV dump" comparison of the "CV reset" version VS the "last known user-configured" version...

Whatever the case, the "fun" of Model Railroading is often one of the first casualties of electrical or mechanical issues, so here's hoping your fix "brings the fun back"...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Also, make sure the DCS100 is

Also, make sure the DCS100 is configured to not run analog.  If the command station-booster won't put DC on the track, the decoder shouldn't see any DC and go goofy. 

I generally try to set the decoders and command stations for DCC only. 

I forgot which OpSwitch it is, but a look through the manual (or a JMRI setting) should get you in the right direction. 

Also, how old is the power supply running the DCS100?  At the club, we had some wear out over the years, and not put out the full power needed.  A fresh one might clear up some issues. 

Set ANY single CV with DecoderPro

Sorry Bruce...

Happy to have helped

Again, the Prof is right, you still don't know what went wrong, and neither did I after inspecting everything via JMRI.  The reset was simple, and I just vowed to be more diligent if it ever occurred again. And it hasn't.

Ron, the beer is in the garage, and almost frozen.  Skol!

Tsunami/Digitrax problem

Once again, many thanks to all of you who have contributed to the discussion.  I'll plead guilty to not following up on root issues - the hexed C630 now runs & sounds as expected, so my immediate problem is solved and I have returned to more mundane tasks such as painting wheel sets and keeping the cat out of the helix....

I have used the Single CV Programmer previously and that was going to be my next step (probably resetting volumes and momentum values also), but that may wait until the crew comes over to critique.  I'll post an update if it adds anything to the store of knowledge here.  

I've been using three AIM 4A 12V filtered ham radio power supplies for years, first with RailLynx on the Montana Road and now with Digitrax on the WM.  All three have normal outputs, and I'll put #3 to work with another DB150 on the new section when it's ready.  Now, should the gremlin re-appear, I'll get serious about diagnostics per Milt's example.

Thanks to all!

Ron

"WM X7495 East OS Highfield"