One idea to seriously consider...

Jeff,

Since you haven't started building yet I would like to make a recommendation that you seriously consider making this layout portable.  Several of the guys on the forum thought they were in their last house, but weren't.  Life threw them a curve ball.  They had not built their layout to be removable which caused them to cutup their layouts.  So, my advice to you is build this layout to be modular in design so you can easily pack it up for an unplanned move.  From now on any layout I build will be portable and can be crated for a move.

You could add box modules into your design that uses shelving to hold them in place.  It would make it easier to work on too.  You could lift out a module to take to a work bench where you can sit to work on it.  You would be able to rotate the box module so you can work under it for the wiring, flip it to work on the lighting in the valence, set it upright to work on the track and scenery.  It would be a lot easier on your back too.

Den

Nice Plan - Skip the modules, go for it...

First of all, I think this is a nice plan.  It uses the space efficiently, has a good flow of track and asiles.

To address you specific concerns:

1. Yard Lead:
   1. The Lead is placed such that locomotives on arriving trains would have to cross the lead to get to the engine facility.  I think it would be best to avoid that.
   2. Lead could possibly be longer
   3. I see 4 through tracks, 1 dedicated stub yard track, and 1 industrial track (at rear).  The 4 through tracks are flexible, as they can be used for arrival depart or switching....The dedicated track is nice to have, but the 1 industrial track with switchback does not seem to optimize the use of sapce.  Worse, it is the start of a double switchback to get to an industry close to the backdrop....
   4. The other challenge in the yard will be getting cars from the yard, across the main to the water front industries...
   5. These are challenges, but I do not have recommendation....These are not show stoppers on the basic plan, but something that could require refinement...refinment possibly after construction has begun...
2. Reverse Loop:
   1. The reverse loop does not seem worth it to me.  It adds extra turnout and puts a tunnel out front in an location with tracks running above...
   2. The loop complicates the hidden track too.
   3. Do you have an operational reason for it?
3. End of Branch:
   1. In general it is OK.  It does have a switchback to industry.  I'd remove the switchback, most prototype railroads attempted to avoid.  Just feed the spur from the far end too....
   2. Why does the branch end in a tunnel?

Other thoughts:

1. Aisle Space
   1. The 24" aisle at the yard seems too tight.  Unless there is some space in the closet to stand.
   2. You'll use this aisle to access your workshop so it deserves more width if possible
   3. It is possible multiple operators could be at the yard, so again more width could help
   4. Can you get it to 27" or 30"
2. The 30" aisle width to enter the rural area seems gratios for the layout...If an extra 3" would help the yard, consider 27"
3. It looks like the staging yard could be made longer.  I suggest you move the turnuts from the top wall (under the mine tracks) to the left wall (only scenery above).  The move will make the tracks longer.  Also consider adding an access hatch to access teh turnouts or see the turnouts from above....Even consider leaving that hatch open all of the time, so one could get close and simply look down on the stagging yard tracks during ops sessions...

Go Modular or not!

• Modular is enticing...It seems so perfect to be able to setup the layout at the next location...but does it work? would it work in this case?
• I do not think this layout is a good candidate for modular for the following reasons:
  • The design is very specific to this space, it's not likely to fit as is at the next location.
  • If next space is larger, would you want to reuse the modules?  I'd think you'd want to make the yard larger...
  • If the next space were smaller...little if anything would fit, standards would change.
  • Lots of tracks would cross joints, making interfaces hard to construct
• To me, modular is best for scenes of specific size - say a prototype LDE (Layout Design Element) that will be the same size no mater how big a room one has...Personally, I model a prototype railroad, where a town.
• Modular layouts are harder to build
• Rather than Modular, I often suggest building layouts of foam.  The foam can then be cut and moved to the next location..Dispose of the wood frame..2-4" of foam is very durable, stable, weather resistant....Light and easy to manage with one person....

The only way you can "screw it up" is to fail to start and enjoy....The best way to work it out is to rebuild your mistakes... I think you can sort out the yard.  You have a good start, go for it.....(hmmm I may need to take my own medicine)

David Keith

http://www.sn2modeler.com

Modular design

I like the plan Jeff, you've got a lot in there.

I think building in modular fashion is the way to go (especially in N scale). By this I mean build the "busy" areas on removable, but not necessarily portable, "modules", which are really just separate pieces of baseboard. This allows you to do all the underneath stuff without slipping a disc. When that's done, screw the module in place. You can either lay track right over the join if you don't expect to remove it for a long time, or butt the tracks up to the join. I did the former and was able to move the modules to our new home after a bit of sawing and cutting - they just need a bit of work done at the edges.

I reckon you could do 2 modules - the main yard and waterfront area could be one (I did an L shaped module bigger than that without any problems), and the branch line terminus could be the other.

No matter what, hope you can make a start soon.

Tony

Thanks Den. 

Thanks.  That is something that I never considered.  We just moved into the house back in June.  But I hear you - it happens.  I am Googling "modular" as we speak. 

Thanks Tony.

That's a good way to look at it - main parts of the layout could be removed easier if I plan ahead a little bit.

Thanks David.

Appreciate all the feedback.  I think you're right - you often find more than one operator in front of the main yard and 24" could be tight.  I was thinking more about just me getting to my seat at the workbench and not operating the yard.  Good comment.  And I am moving the left cutouts for the staging tracks.  It now occurs to me that you can have more than one train on a single staging track. 

No good reason for the reverse loop - just never done it before and looking for a place to stick one in there for the experience.  Branch line ends in a tunnel for the illusion of the layout going off onto further places and regions.  It'll likely be longer than in the sketch.  Perhaps the yard is on the same side of the main as the harbor bits so it's easier to move traffic to the waterfront area?  Dunno but I am taking a look at all of it.   

Switches

I would suggest before getting too far along you redraw your plan to a larger scale, 3/4 to 1.5 /ft. and pay particular attention to the spacing of the switches.  You have drawn the switches as #2 turnouts.  Where you have drawn a crossover as taking up 4" of space, it will actually eat up 9 to 12".

Your yard as drawn is about 4-5 ft long, but it has 7-8 switches between the outer ends. At a nominal 5 " per switch, that's 35-40" of the 48" taken up with switches.  Your yard is going to be waaaay tighter than you've drawn. 

Another technique I use is to buy a roll of brown wrapping paper and cut out a piece the size of the yard area and then, using photocopies of actual switches, lay it out full size on the wrapping paper.  You will be suprised by how much room switches take up.

Thanks Dave.

Yeah I see what you mean.  I have drawn two crossovers in the space of the turntable when in fact one crossover will take up that much distance.  Please see my updated sketch - drawn before I saw your comment. 

Track plan version 2

Hello again.  I have made changes to the track plan based on some good feedback.  What do you think?  Here are some of the bigger changes in version 2:

I eliminated the very long tunnel with the three staging tracks.  I’d like to see more of the running trains. 

I eliminated the reverse loop.  Now the left entrance to what was the reverse loop goes down to three staging tracks under the highest part of the layout over on the right.  I am hoping to get about 5 to 6 inches of space between the layout and the staging tracks.  Hopefully that is enough for N-scale.  And maybe 3-4 foot staging tracks.

I removed a couple of yard tracks to make the yard an easier fit.  This removed a few switches (at least one crossover) and I made the turntable and roundhouse larger.  I also moved the access to the engine facilities away from the yard lead, and lengthened the lead. 

Removed a couple of unrealistic switchbacks to some industries.   

Comments welcome.

Cover the Window...

Now many may not consider this, but UV radiation is your worst enemy when it comes to long term preservation and the degradation of your property while it is sitting around.  It is for this reason you should never ever hang valuable painting, photos, books, or place any objects of great value in a brightly lit room!

Your N scale rolling stock will sit on the layout, as will locomotives, trees, structures, you name it.  If you leave the window open, anything around that window will show noticeable bleaching after only perhaps 3 months.

I have had windows like yours now twice in my life, and in both cases I simply covered them up!  I start with a piece of 1" or 2" styrofoam, 4x8 sheet works well, beadboard, whatever, it's all the same here.In the first instance I boxed the curtain structure inside the box, in my present application my foam actually fits between the glass and the blinds, hence I took the blinds down, fitted the foam, and then put the blinds back up - the best storage place for blinds or curtains is around the window they're intended to be a part of!!

When I had to take down the last layout, the room was restored to the original window configuration just as quickly as I could tear out the layout.

You may take considerations and make portholes below the layout, if you need them, but otherwise, plan on using lights to see in your train room.

N scale layout

1. I have an  N scale modular layout very similar to your plan. My comment ( and I am sure you have considered this) is to be sure you have ample access to all of the hidden track. Many factors cause N scale rolling stock to leave the track. I believe that you have great start.

thanks

Crap!  I love that window and it does let in a lot of sunlight.  Never thought about it.

@ JT

JT,  It would seem to me that some sort of film would help you with that issue.  Check to see if there is a Solar Screen store in your area.

Den

I am not sure if others have

I am not sure if others have noticed or perhaps I am seeing things... but some of the turnout angles seem pretty steep and over optimistic.  Particularly around the barge and and a few other places.  Are you sure your track work will fit in this configuration?

Trackplan

This track plan looks great, it has lots of operating possibilities so you will not become bored. As seanm points out, some of the turnout angles look off. My suggestion would be to download XtrackCAD  ( www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage ) and see it the plan will actually work.

Hope this helps

--

Will Annand

thanks Will

I just downloaded the program and will give it a try.  I have drawn it to scale and will post it soon.  Had to make some changes for sure.

Now drawn to scale...

Hello, here is what happened after I used XTrkCAD to draw the track plan.  Most of it seemed to work out.  The curves are 13-15 inch radius, with the 15 inch curves outside the tunnels.  Couple of things that did change:

Lost the roundhouse.  Maybe I’ll use a one or two stall engine house instead, but the roundhouse looks like it will take up too much space.

The yard tracks moved to the other side of the mainline.  This makes for longer tracks in the yard and easier access to the waterfront area at the bottom left.  The yard lead is also now on the outside of the mainline.  And I had to lose the switchback that was against the yard side of the backdrop.  No room for that.

Made a longer passing siding that goes past the sawmill area.

A new plan for staging.  In the other image is the staging under the layout that includes a reverse loop and a few staging tracks.  Each is almost or more than 7 feet long.  I can get them to 5 inches below the layout mostly using grades less than 2%.  The steepest grade is 2.1% to get the line going to the staging under the mainline inside the tunnels at upper right (with the mainline also going up at 1.5%) and at least 2 inches of clearance.  The rest of the grade down to staging is about 1.5% or less.  I am keeping the line to the staging tracks against the walls so it is not in the way under the valleys and streams and such that I want to do in the foreground against the fascia.

What do you think?      

Jeff, for me your plan

Jeff,

for me your plan looks good.

I'd try to change the straight on the siding into a smooth curve (red circle) and add some more stub ending staging tracks.

Have you considered the access to the landscape ? It could be hard to reach beyond 2' from the fascia (red lines)

thanks Mike

In your red circle, are you referring to the piece of straight track that I have the big black arrow pointing to?  If it is, I am not sure what you mean by making it into a smooth curve...? 

I'll take a look at adding some stub ending staging tracks under the layout.  I was figuring the fewer turnouts that are 5 inches under the layout the better.

I tried to keep the reach under 3 feet as I have pretty long arms.  The reaches are barely under 3 feet, though.  And my low back is already shot.

I'll have to take a closer look at your blog site.  thanks.

Jeff, In your red circle,

Jeff,

yes, instead of using the straight(s), I would start the curve as an easement curve (i hope this the right translation for "Übergangsbogen").

This will effect the branch line turnout and the upper siding turnout.

Sorry, at the moment i have no access to my desktop pc, otherwise i would have tried this in xtrackcad and provided a picture xD