Standards

Unfortunately now with the advent of all these new plug styles there IS no standard.  The physical plugs is not the issue but the decoder outputs is. Particularly in the now "obsolete" 21MTC connector and mother boards. Aftermarket boards are great but OEM boards are a royal PIA as to what pad or connection point is what.  OEMs in particular do not want to document the boards.  One has to figure out what is what and that can lead to disaster when trying to install KA circuits OEM or your own design! This is my frustration.  No standard MB format.  I would think as we move to this NEW connector "PLUX" with 22 pins (same as 21 MTC but with a different index from what I see) it would be nice if mother boards are also standardized just to make it more simple for the end consumer. I would also think the the OEMs would benefit from this as the design would be universal and would allow them to focus more of visible features or improvements in other areas.  I also feel this would help drive to cost of these products down to a bit more reasonable level for all.  

If it ain’t broke why fix it???

I obviously have a stake in 21-pin connectors.  I wonder why new is better?  Track inputs, motor outputs, speaker outputs, stay alive connections and a significant number of lighting/accessory outputs are all stable and well accounted for.  Industry standard (NMRA) 21-pin decoders are being made by all the decoder manufacturers.  At partial issue continues to be how the locomotive manufacturers keep their costs down with connectors that don’t give the consumer versatility particularly for lighting and decoders that come in many varieties.  The decoder interchangeably is also slightly tainted by the competition between decoder manufacturers when they make 21-pin decoders for a particular locomotive manufacturer.  These issues will not change with a new type of connector.

I don’t see any more lighting outputs in the new connector.  I am happy with the performance and the versatility that the 21-pin connector provides.  It is simple, works well and is reasonably compact.  I can’t see where a different board/pin configuration is going to do anything more than confuse the already complex patch cord situation.  

Having said all that and also realizing that the 21-pin system is going to be around for a while or maybe longer I’d like to show you two new additions to the retrofit / upgrade family I’m in the process of adding.  I have stock and will this week add these to my website and offer them to retailers.  I am currently waiting for the packaging.

On the left is the original Decoder Buddy, In the middle is the new Mini on the right is the Decoder Buddy V5.  The Mini (even though the first few will say “Tiny” on the board) is just a little longer than a 21-pin sound decoder, has pads for speakers, motor, stay alive and 3 wire Power Pack (V4 and V5), headlights front and rear, and two Aux outputs.  There are no resistors on the board.  Four 2.2K axial resistors are included in the package for use with LEDs and low current bulbs. This provides a more versatility for resistors existing in the locomotive, 12 volt bulbs or accessories.  It was designed for the smaller steam or diesel locomotives.  It can certainly be used in any situation where a simple, basic configuration is desired as well.

On the bottom on the 45 is a lighting test board that fits on both the original and V5 Decoder Buddys.

The Lighting Test Board fits on the small connector board connector.  When the locomotive is placed on a program track it allows one to test motion, sound, stay alive and lights before placing the shell on the locomotive.  The pictures above don’t give an accurate color rendition of the LEDs!!!

Nick

I agree

As I only have two 21 MTC decoders at this time, I don't have a vested interest as you do Nick.  But from what I see of your product, it IS the way I would like to see ALL motherboards done.  Simple and concise! Not a smattering of useless components or solder pads that lead to nowhere as so many others do.  The two decoders were from OEMs.  This part is most of the problem as the OEMs design their own decoders with the Decoder Manufacturer and in that respect some of the pin outputs do not match the standard.  This ended in disaster recently when I installed a KA circuit (kit form from a fellow modeler who sells them) onto a motherboard and quickly ended up frying the decoder.  (The OEM replaced it after I explained what happened) This happened even after testing on the program track first!  This is the example of "the solder pads labeled +/- to nowhere issue!  

I agree! Why "fix" something that isn't broken?   Have you thought about offering your product to OEMs?  It seems to me you could be a leader in standardizing this format. 

You thoughts Nick?    

Re: The new standard

Hi Nelson,

Thank you for your positive comments.  
 

The people at the NMRA did a very good service when they designed and/or adopted the 21-pin connector.  I hear from the N-gauge people frequently requesting a Decoder Buddy for their locomotives.  It would be great but, as Joe pointed out, there is no standard decoder.  It would be a benefit to the model railroad community for the decoder manufacturers and the locomotive manufacturers to use the design as much and as efficiently as possible.

I have thought about offering them to the manufacturers and would be pleased to open a discussion with them.  

I was a couple miles from one of the locomotive manufacturers one day before I set out to make my first batch and offered a meeting with the CEO.  He was busy that day and couldn’t make it happen.  I haven’t happened to be near there again so nothing has evolved yet.

I strongly agree that the Decoder Buddy idea would be something that would be very easy to implement by the manufacturers and would benefit our community immensely.  

Alternatively for those of us who don’t mind soldering, a locomotive from the manufacturers that had wires from the trucks and wires attached to the motor might save us a couple bucks and allow us choice of lights, stay alives, speakers and other accessories.

After all, a lot of us like to embellish our locomotives!

Have a good!

Nick

Too many standards

It’s annoying that there’s so many standards that there are effectively none.  And they’re still making up more.

Some examples?

It’s annoying that there’s so many standards that there are effectively none. And they’re still making up more.

Do you have some examples of these “still more” standards?

The ones in the article are the ones in North America. Officially, the standards are:

HO and larger:
- NMRA medium (8 pin)
- 21MTC (NEM only)
- PluX 8/16/22

N and Z:
- NMRA small (6-pin)
- PluX 8/12/16/22
- Next18 (NEM only)

Notice the NMRA has ruled the 21MTC standard to be obsolete.

I think what the NMRA wants at this point is the PluX 8/16/22 and nothing else. They have already dropped the 21MTC standard in favor of the PluX22 instead. I think they would like to drop the NMRA medium and small standards as well, replacing them with the PluX8 instead.

For an "obsolete" standard,

For an "obsolete" standard, there are a lot of 21MTC decoders out there for sale. Found only 1 mfg that has PleX decoders. When did this new interface come out? Any DCC ready or DCC installed models with it? Just asking. Will TCS and the decoder buddy need to redesign their motherboards? 

Obsolete?

The 21-pin standard was declared obsolete in a never-ratified draft standard of the NMRA's several years ago. I think we can write-off their declaration of it as obsolete.

Frankly I think the manufacturers are setting the standards these days.

The MTC in 21-MTC stands for Marklin-Trix-Connector, btw.

Still more

The 8/16/22 pin standard is the latest new one, still has that new connector smell.  I’m sure it won’t be the last.  Once you get into a situation like this where there are lots of competing standards, especially when there is a (futile?) attempt to declare a very widely used standard obsolete, I don’t think anyone takes standards very seriously.  It’s hard to think of any examples where solving the problem of too many standards by making a new standard actually makes anyone’s life simpler.  More likely it’s a self-propagating endless cycle.

Typo

Not PleX 8/16/22, but PluX 8/16/22.  Minor detail discovered by doing a Google search for the wrong name.

MRH: Our bad, typos fixed in the post above to say PluX ...

Standards will continue to evolve

The standards will evolve as the number of functions and other capabilities will evolve as well. 

This picture, that I took 4 years ago, shows 3 versions of the ESU Lokpilot V4. It was the first time I had to order the PLUX version as I just received a replacement board for an older model and that board had a PLUX connector.

In Europe the PLUX connector is quite main stream already. Both Roco and Piko locomotives come default with it. Many other brands still have the MTC21. The older 8 pin is not something you see that often anymore.

It was a great article to summarize where things are today and that there is some difference between the NMRA and NEM. In general though it is very much aligned and that is the power of DCC.

Regards,

Lolke