Comments?

With all the traffic the

  It's a matter of perspective. When I first started in the hobby everyone was older than me and now most are younger than me so from my point of view the hobby is getting younger , not graying. Lack of comments is probably just due to relatively few readers being located in the La Mesa area so not many have spent time thinking about the session or the article? .....DaveB

An example for the rest of us

I think it’s great.

I have never operated on a large layout. I wish all clubs had the mindset those guys have. 
 

Wow, that's awesome! If I

Wow, that's awesome! If I didn't live on the other side of the country, I would love to be involved with that! I'm glad that our local club lets my friends and I be a part of it.

the complaining about the graying

is gonna seem quiet compared to the complaining of the older members when the kids take over the layout and remove the roundhouse,shops,most of the yard and other unneeded tracks, the depots, operators stations, water tanks, etc. Then grind the tops of the tunnels for their double stacks. :> ) .....DaveB

Pizza Box Layout Club

I, for one, do not believe the hobby is “dying.”  Over this past weekend I attended a train show in Sacramento and saw lot of families with young kids there who love trains.  It was the same when I lived in Arizona, Utah and Idaho.  However, we, as model railroaders, just like the La Mesa Club is doing in the San Diego area, need to be doing more to make youth and their parents feel welcome and provide more ways to introduce them to the hobby.

For example, several years ago members of the NMRA Northern Utah Division, led by Duane Holbrook, stated a Pizza Box Layout Club for children ages 2 to 18.  The kids, with a little help and instruction, along with a lot of encouragement, build their own 2’ x 2’ N gauge circle layout over the course of several months, meeting monthly for about two hours.  The layout is based on a 2’ square piece of styrofoam, usually including a mountain with a tunnel through it.  The program has been very successful and several hundred kids have participated.  Their layouts were on display at the 2018 National N Scale Convention and the 2019 NMRA Convention and National Train Show in Salt Lake City where they were well received. While, technically, the club is not directly a Northern Utah Division program, many division members participate and it has resulted with a number of folks joining the NMRA and NUD.  Here’s a link with more information.   http://www.northernutahnmra.org/pizza-box-club/

I know Walthers, and other vendors are interested in getting more kids involved in the hobby.  For example, the 2020 Walthers Catalog has a feature on the Pizza Box Layout Club.  Also, the NMRA is looking in to creating a program for youth, but, in today’s world, they are first looking is to how to have such a program and ensure youth are safe. 

I know there are other programs out there, so, as Joe said, let’s hear about them.

Lou in California 

Eh...

I frequent a lot of chan image boards, and a lot of them have model railroading threads on them. It's filled with young people of all back grounds and even women. There are a lot more young people and women in the hobby than what people think. They don't post on many of the forum sites because they don't want a spotlight shined on them every minute. They are normal people who want to be treated normally. The main complaints I always see from them is forums are filled with mean boomers, forumers are elitist or condescending, petty drama, endless complaining, forums are too cliquey, everyone thinks their always right, etc etc. The list goes on for a while. The image board threads flow well and usually very friendly and helpful. You will never see the vast majority of young people or women post on any of these forums. They don't want all the garbage arguing and elitism. While I haven't been subject to elitism on this forum, there is a massive amount of complaining and hurt feelings on display here all the time. If you want more young people on the forums and part of our community, then just act natural and be nice to one another. It's not hard. It's easy to be nice.

I also want to point out an example of what people don't like. There was a thread about a bachmann engine and the original poster asked if he should upgrade it or put it on a shelf. The first responses were telling him it was trash. Even if the model isn't that good, that's not what a lot of younger people want to see as their first response. While the original poster of that thread was a grown man, what if he was strapped for cash and that was as good as a model of that particular engine he could afford? Not everyone can afford even things that seem basic to the rest of us, especially if that person is younger. Anyways, it's just a thought.

See the steam punk topic

See the steam punk topic recently posted.  Not my cup of tea but seems to be aimed at the younger crowd.

What’s goes around comes around ...

Ew youtube.

I suppose that's true. Drama is in fact everywhere. Still, we could always do better as a community and should always strive to be a better and more welcoming community. There is always work to do not just within the groups we travel or forums we frequent, but in ourselves as well.

...

Congratulations to the adult volunteers in the club who showed up repeatedly to mentor this program. My experience is that modelers love to complain about a perceived lack of youth in the hobby, but almost none are willing to devote the hours needed to make a youth program work. Every hour in that effort involves "giving" to the hobby rather than doing your own operating or model building, and the "givers" appear to be relatively rare.

A couple of things would have made a more complete article and would help other clubs or organizations considering similar programs. First, as of this post, the Bonus Download showing the complete program guidelines is not available. Second, what procedures are used to screen or track the adults in the room? It's uncomfortable to talk about, but a key reason that fewer youth programs exist is the fact that some adults join youth groups to seek access to teens for improper purposes. Background checks, fingerprinting, and liability insurance to protect the club against molestation or abuse claims must, unfortunately, be considered and they are not cheap. Did the club implement any of these and what did they cost (insurance premiums for example)? Other adult guidelines may be advisable such as not permitting a single teen and a single adult in any closed area such as a dispatcher's office. A difficult topic but it is the world we live in.

Promoting young modelers

This session set by La Mesa Model Railroad Club is a great initiative.

Let's see some data instead of perspective.

• in 1993, a survey on a French magazine (Loco Revue) shown that the 31-50 years old age group was the majority (Loco Revue #561,‎ July-August 1993 issue, page 497)
• in 2009 the 40-69 years old where the majority (MRH first annual survey -- the link I had is now broken, alas)
• in 2016 we moved to a 60-69 years old age group as the majority ( MRH #68)

This can be retrieved on French Wikipedia. As a conclusion, the majority of model railroader (readers magazines) is apparently getting older. Sorry.

I don't remember such videos being promoted by MRH, even if it is model railroading remated. The trend for every magazines I can read (US and Europe ones) is to show finished and high-level work. When I was a teenager (not so long ago), it was really rewarding to get an article about your work being published in model railroading magazines (same as getting a prize at a train show).

This is true for any model-railroading minorities: we don't often see works from under 30 y.o. but also women or non-Caucasian people. I know it is sometimes complicated to get articles and videos, but maybe MRH has an move to make here, with a call to make?

Imagine what happen if you have an ocean between you and trains you like.

This is not new, and every National model railroading associations have been thinking about it, now since decades. Success is really relative there: creating initiatives is easy, and have a one day/one week project, like the Pizza project, is a good first start. But what's next?

You need to find a club: they are rare, they don't always accept young modelers (see the history of La Mesa Club), and they often require you to have a long drive. Then, you're not sure of being well welcomed: I'm not modeling French trains, so my local club is not really welcoming, and I'm sure this can apply to any place where you don't model what the majority does.

Or you need to find a mentor with enough patience to help a new model railroader; most of us don't think they are legitimate to help others but that's wrong: we are all capable of sharing. Step forward and don't be shy! Don't you think we need a mentors' directory?

Internet as the greatest club in the world? Sure you can find there documentation and help, but also people being rude at you because they are protected by the distance. This is not encouraging. You can also find people who speak gibberish about things you are not interested by. This is not encouraging either. The biggest progress I've seen so far is YouTube, where you can see how to actually do something, with clear step-by-steps.

You also have to buy trains. They are super expansive, since the average modeler wants great models (that have a cost) and has a greater buying power (50 to 100 USD per month in majority - MRH 2009 survey) for the hobby than a teenager.

True! What people know about it is that it takes a lot of time, but they don't know it is super rewarding. Ans as I said, any of you will be a good teacher.

"Working with Children" check : Australia

Dear patent,

Yep, Australia has you covered...

Aust Federal
https://ablis.business.gov.au/service/nsw/working-with-children-check/31457

NSW
https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/apply-working-children-check

https://www.kidsguardian.nsw.gov.au/child-safe-organisations/working-with-children-check

VIC
https://www.workingwithchildren.vic.gov.au/

Northern Territory
https://nt.gov.au/emergency/community-safety/apply-for-a-working-with-children-clearance

Queensland
https://www.qld.gov.au/law/laws-regulated-industries-and-accountability/queensland-laws-and-regulations/regulated-industries-and-licensing/blue-card-services

Western Australia
https://workingwithchildren.wa.gov.au/

South Australia
https://screening.sa.gov.au/

Tasmania
https://wwcforms.justice.tas.gov.au/Apply/ApplicationStart.aspx

ACT
https://www.accesscanberra.act.gov.au/app/answers/detail/a_id/1804/~/working-with-vulnerable-people-%28wwvp%29-registration

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Promote Model Railways/Railroading,
Prof Klyzlr

To me, if someone shows a

To me, if someone shows a real interest in the hobby, their age, gender, etc., etc., are irrelevant. If they're a model railroader, or they honestly want to be, that's what matters (at least in relation to the hobby).

Unfortunately, many people don't look at it that way. They see kids as a pain, and a probable disaster waiting to happen if they're allowed near the layout. I've been a member of more than one club where even suggesting someone under the age of 18 be allowed to join would put you in the doghouse.

As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that is needed other than a real interest in the hobby is a respect for the property of others (and that's not an age-specific requirement). Kids, especially younger ones, do need to be watched closer because that respect (if they're ever going to have it) is often still developing (as well as their fine motor skills). 

So a big "thumbs up!" to the La Mesa club for their program, and to all clubs and individuals who don't just show the young folks the door as quickly as possible.

The Evolutionary Life Cycle of a Model Railroader

Model railroading isn't dying because of modelers aging; it's an evolutionary cycle and fact of life that serious modelers will almost always be gray haired for a reason.  But youth will always be there

Take myself for example.  I loved railroading from the time I was a wee lad. A visit to my grandparents always resulted in a walk downtown ending up at the train station where we'd wait and watch for the trains go by.  As a youth I had a Lionel under the tree at Christmas and longed to have a basement empire.  Dad said no.  A little later my interests turned to girls and cars.  So long model trains (for now).

I got married and moved into a 1-bedroom apartment.  No room for an empire,but I bought a Tyco Golden Eagle set for under my Christmas tree.  That low quality set almost ruined my desire; until I discovered Athearn blue box locos.  I bought my first one in 1983 for about $23 brand new.I still have it and it still runs.

Along came three children.  No money or space for an empire, but every year I had a Christmas layout under the tree.  First 4x6 ovals then the Yule Central from an issue of MR.  Moved to another state, bought a house.  Still no money or space for an empire.  Scouting, little league, cheerleading and all the other parenting things came first.  Still continued the Christmas layout in 4x6 or 4x8.  I once even built a layout with a 3-track yard and 5 blocks for 2-train ops with separete throttles.

Beginning about 1996 I found out about, and began going to, an annual train show about 60 miles away with $100 in my pocket (all the family comptroller would authorize).  There were/are no stocked LHS within 75 miles.  I bought track, rolling stock/locos and building kits anticipating the Day I could build my empire.

As my oldest child entered college,I realized the day I'd have that empty room to build in was approaching.  I downloaded Atlas' Right Track software and began planning.  12 years ago my second child moved our and I finally had a room.Today I'm a 60 YO gray hair with a railroad empire.

My eldest child (daughter) has 3 children ages 2 to 11 and a few of years ago she asked for, and I bought them, a Lionel for under the tree that gets set up every year.  I've also bought additions for them.

And the cycle repeats.

Tom

Unfortunately, many people

"Unfortunately, many people don't look at it that way. They see kids as a pain, and a probable disaster waiting to happen if they're allowed near the layout. I've been a member of more than one club where even suggesting someone under the age of 18 be allowed to join would put you in the doghouse.":

I won't say anything about the member in our club regarding the second sentence, but it's amazing to see the young visitor who touch/break the layout, and their parents don't do anything about it. Then there are the kids who break something, and when there parents try to fix it, they break it more. A couple members of our club politely remind us when we are not following a prototype operating practice. Then there are members I am reminding to run down the right-hand main, or to wait for the speeding passenger train before slowing crawling across the junction.

A few thoughts I am 50. I had

A few thoughts

I am 50. I had 30+ cousins and dozens of friends and my graduation class had 435.  I used to take model railroad magazines into school from an early age to read and did other things to show I was interested in trains.  I used to go to the local hobby shop from age 11 and I attended my regional meeting at 11, my first regional convention at 14 and my first national convention at 16 and guess what?  I never encountered anyone my age at any of those.

I had one friend that had a small 4x8 layout that he mostly used as a place to play with matchbox cars.

So I contend that youth has NEVER been a big part of our hobby,  And it is only the baby boomers who believe otherwise.  Probably because when they were kids it was a common toy.   But that was a very long time ago and trains were replaced by other high tech toys.  Keep in mind that Pong came out in 73,  And the Atari game system (aka 2600) came out in 76 or 77 so that is 43 to 47 YEARS ago that electronics took over as the must have toy.

Then when you look at how busy folks are today.  Many of them need a second job to make ends meet (a side hustle) and almost all families have both the wife and husband working so the guys have to do more of the house work then in the past.  And let’s not forget that the kids now have organized EVERYTHING so people have to spend a LOT more time taking taking kids to various activities then my generations parents did (we got kicked out of the house and told to go play)

So Kids play with other toys,  Younger Adults (20-50) have more time working and raising a family so naturally you will see more older folks today then you used to in the past.  Add in that we just have a smaller number of younger folks to pull participants from and it is simply natural that the hobby is older then it was.

As for the survey number.  You have to keep in mind that some of the results are from Europe and some from the US and that is going to effect the results.  As in general in Europe folks have a LOT more time off then in the US so even family aged adults have more free time to devote to hobbies.  And in much of Western Europe the working class has a reasonable amount of disposable income.  So they can afford ord a hobby,  of course they don’t have our larger houses so they can’t do on average as large of layout as we can but you would expect to see a younger average age due to more free time.

And let’s be honest free time is THE thing that dictates our hobby participation.  
As and example I am a bachelor with no kids so my time is my own.  But I run my own business and that is resulting in me working from my home more so I had to finish my office in my free time.  and recently my fathers health has gotten bad so I have to spend two days a week taking him to medical appointments.  And I had to spend time reconfiguring my house to accommodate my father.  So anyone want guess how much time I have spent in my train room in the last 9 months?

So I don’t think it is that kids don’t like trains now or don’t see them or any of the other BS that folks try to use to justify the latest “the hobby is dying “ topic.  It is just the results of social changes over the last 40 years in the US (and elsewhere) that means that people in thier 30s 40s and 50s don’t have the free time that the baby boomer generation had at the same age.

Things changed rabidly from Baby Boomers to Generation X.  All my siblings and almost alll my cousins are Baby Boomers but being a late child I am Generation X and just that decade difference is HUGE when it comes to free time and disposable income (on average).  So between those issues and my generation (and the younger generations) being smaller then the baby boomers you are just naturally seeing more old folks in the the hobby.

And nothing we in the hobby can do will change that.

-Doug M

I think I may have mentioned this in previous threads,

But a few years ago the modular club that I belong to began doing "Kids Run Trains" at our shows.  KRT has been especially successful at Southern California Railroad Museum during the "Day Out With Thomas" events.  We then had a period where we did not have any shows scheduled for a few weeks, so a member of the club who was also a volunteer leader at a Boy's & Girl's Club in Orange County, Ca. set up a long weekend at the club where we spent most of each afternoon doing KRT.  We added a bit of education to the program by having a couple of members take a few minutes to "show & tell" about steam & diesel engines and also to go over some different types of freight cars and what might be hauled in each.  Then we had about 8 members taking turns supervising a kid who ran a train around the layout a couple of laps each.  Our dcc throttles have lanyards attached to 2 screws holding the throttles together.  The lanyards are slipped over the kid's neck so that the throttle was worn like a necklace so that if it slipped out of a kid's hands, the throttle did not fall to the floor.  The kids had a great time, and we enjoyed having some time with the kids.  Most of the kids were from what would be called at risk, or before p.c. underprivileged.  The kids were very well behaved and had a great time.

The result was that a member of the local Elk's club located about 2 blocks way from the Boy's & Girl's club came by and saw what we were doing and invited us to set up at the Elk's Club on the Friday following Thanksgiving.  On Saturday, they had an open house for families from a battered women's shelter that Elk's club sponsored to come for a complete Thanksgiving meal and organized a bunch of activities for the children including us letting the kids run trains.  On Sunday the club members were invited to bring their kids to run trains with us.  On both days the kids were very well behaved and had a great time.  I took my grandson who loves trains with me on Sunday, and when things started to slow down in the afternoon, my 9 year old grandson and a girl who was a little older were both running trains for a couple of hours.  We had the capability of running 4-6 trains at once on the layout, up to three on each mainline.  

Great idea

An op session specifically for youth is impressive, both the club was willing to do it and that they had enough youth members to make it work.

I see plenty of youngsters at local hobby shows, intent on finding bargains they’re after, and there is at least one club whose modular setup at the shows always has a few youngsters running trains.

On the survey results I’d guess they’re not really representative of reality.  First, they’re pre-selected for only people who read the publication doing the survey (MRH).  And secondly, only people who bother replying to the survey.  That’s got to skew things pretty significantly somehow.

I don't know about the hobby

I don't know about the hobby graying (even though I'm  more than starting to myself), my 6 year old son loves working my small switching layout and he asks all the time when we can go build more of my new shelf layout in the basement.   A friend of ours has a 5 year old who is obsessed with trains too. 

I think the hobby is fine as long as we encourage young kids.

Mike

Youth in the hobby

Sports Fans,

Been a B. S, A., Girl Scouts and little league coach in my life time and can agree on many issues of this thread.

Back as a Scout Master Merit Badge counselor in a troop in Moore, OK. in the 90's,  found many parents refused boys get into model trains because of cost.

Would explain that Video games cost about the same,  but not the reward as our hobby.

Have Tyco to Atlas and some other engines still running on my Brass track, manual switch's and early MRC model 100 and TECH II #1500 layout.  TECH is brand new from OKC train show this last December.

Money and time seem to be the major reasoning for few young folks in my area to start in the hobby.

I will never put any ones layout down for what ever,  just glad to see more folks in the Greatest Hobby. Because my Little switching layout is King of the lines for me.  Yes I am the cheat modeler!

Peace Out,

Boudreaux,  track maintenance leader on the Bayou Crest Express R.R. --- not a fun job!!

 Almost every hobby I'm

Almost every hobby I'm involved in has "youth in the hobby" concerns and post. I've become numb to them.

Young Operators!

I'll leave the teens vs. adults debate to others.  I'll just say I remember my first visit to real B&O interlocking tower (WD, Fairmont, WV) at age twelve and how that half hour visit the late morning of Monday, June 8, 1976 basically set the course for everything I do in this hobby to this day.  To see those kids at a big CTC board or sitting at a small desk with a scissor-phone copying clearances does the heart of this 55 year old "operator wannabe" a lot of good!  

I would have traded my three-speed bike for the opportunity to even see, let alone be part of a club like this.  Let's hope they develope a lifelong interest in model railroading.

Gary D.