Pet Peeve of mine 40' containers

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40'ers on top

Great project

Thank you Guido. Simple project with big rewards. I was looking at some COFC cars and I think I am going to go ahead and pick tHem up. I have the same problem as you do with space. Your article will help me make it work.

From a small sample that I

From a small sample that I have observed, many CN (CNRU) containers have the requisite fittings to place a ISO 40 foot box on top of one of their 53 foot domestic boxes.  The ISO boxes are narrower than domestic boxes.  Domestic boxes have two sets of fittings on the bottom (narrow to match ISO, and wider for domestic), and now some are coming with two sets on top. 

It depends...

A lot of it will have to do with the era and type of container you're modeling.  Back in the early days of double stacks (early to mid 80's), wells were only 40 or 45 ft long.  However, much like trailers of that era, container lengths grew faster than the equipment was being designed and built.  As a result, the newer 48 and 53 ft containers could only go in the top position.  The first 48 ft wells didn't arrive until the late 80's, and by the early 90's, the 53 ft containers were already starting to become common.  At that point there were still lots of 40, 45, and 48 ft wells in service, so the 53's could only go on top.  It would also depend on if the well was 8 ft wide (96") or 8' 6" wide (102"). A 45 ft x 102" container would have to go on top if the well is only 96" wide, even if the well is 45 ft long.

A lot will also have to do with supply chain and fleet optimization. Railroads tend to keep domestic and marine containers separate, partly because it's a waste to put a 40 ft container in a 53 ft well, and partly because the origin/destination for each type is different (40 ft will typically originate/terminate at a port facility, whereas 53 ft will probably originate/terminate from a different facility).  There's always exceptions though. There are interesting threads on other train forums that discuss programs in the mid 2000's to take 45 and 48 ft wells and either shorten them to 40 ft or lengthen to 53 ft, depending on if they were needed for domestic or marine/international containers.

I did a quick google search thinking that all containers had IBCs at both the 40 ft and outer positions (my memory is hazy), but I discovered that all containers have both top and bottom IBCs only at the 40 ft position.  Longer containers have partial IBCs on the bottom end corners only for securing to a container chassis, but nothing at the upper end corners.  So weight is not an issue here as all containers are stacked and supported at the 40 ft position.  The only exception is 20 ft containers which must go on the bottom in all cases because there are no IBCs or structural framing on a 40+ ft container to support them at the 20 ft position.  BN used to have a fleet of 28 ft containers that would ride on top, but they had a special cradle that the containers sat in to secure the intermediate ends and support the weight.

Craig

Can't Top Load 40' boxes?

This statement is entirely incorrect. The attachment points are all standardized at the 40' locations and longer containers have reinforced posts at the stacking points.

*Some* 53' domestic containers might not have the reinforcement and I've seen some stencilled "TOP POSITION ONLY" but most 53' containers can be stacked on top of each other.

All Pupose Husky - Stacks. (3-pack) TtX #1 932-34301 Walthers

I myself purchased these stacks more than 20 years ago and yes the bottom of the cars scraped the rails.  At the local hobby shop where I purchased them, I found Wheelsets that were a bit bigger than the factor sets.  These sets made clearance for the cars and a smooth ride too.The sets are made by InterMountain Railway Co., 36" Ball Bearing Wheelsets.  Item no. IRC 40059.

Multiple unit well cars

Is there a more specific name for these 'groups' of well cars that are joined by articulation and a single truck shared between units??

Can all of the 5 unit sets (HO models) be run as 3 unit sets?
 

Generally how long (overall length) is a 5 unit set,...HO scale??
(I'm looking to find out for my container yard design)

I think that different railroads had different names for them.

A friend of mine used to work for either U.P. or S.F. and he refers to the empty well cars as "bare tables."

Bare Tables

The term applies to any movement of empty intermodal cars, but especially to long strings of them.

And any "group" sharing the same road number is one _car_.  The units are called wells (stack cars) or platforms (spine cars).  A traditional long flat is said to be worth two platforms.

And the sublettering convention for a 5-unit car is A-E-D-C-B.  Both the A and B units have handbrakes so which is which is kind of arbitrary.  That said, in most spine cars the A-unit points the opposite way from the other units.

Scott Chatfield

Sublettering

Kind of strange,...wonder how they arrived at that?

Lettering convention

A and B are the two end units, and any additional middle units number up from the "B" end.

e.g.

A-B (two unit car, stack cars don't really come in this configuration, but there are other examples of twin-unit cars or two bodies drawbarred together to make one "car")

A-C-B or B-C-A depending how you look at it (typical 3-unit spine or well car set)

A-E-D-C-B / B-C-D-E-A (typical 5-unit spine or well car set)

If you were ever to build a 10-unit set of something, the units should number up like

B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I-J-A

Interestingly, some earlier well car sets actually originally had individually numbered units, but most of these were later renumbered to a single number per "set" with the individual "units" given the now typical sub lettering. This makes a lot more sense since each set is treated as a single car.

Yes, you can run five unit

Yes, you can run five unit cars as three unit cars, at least in N scale...   the articulartion is a single pin. It also works on the prototype,,...  over the years, a number of 5 unit cars have become four or three unit through attrition. I don't know if any have been mixed making one car out of two or three, but it's possible, I suppose.

I've got 12 of the Walters five unit cars, three of them custom painted and lettered for my own road, , and have run them all in a single train. I replace all the cheap plastic wheels with Atlas metal wheels in MT trucks, and the pins with 2-56 brass machine screws. They glide like they're on ice, and being metal, don't need containers to bring them up to weight. I use a mix of plastic containers of various lengths, cardstock 40 foots (I've got a couple hundred of them.... ) and cast-metal open and flatbed containers with tarped loads.

And if I'm doing a christmas show, I have foam inserts with various gift and miniature tree ornaments glued on... just drop them in the wells and I'm ready for the Santa Express!

Power ranges from modern diesels to a pair of DD40s to a couple of Mikados . (If UP can pull a container train with their Challenger...  I'm looking forward to them repeating that with their Big Boy! )

In the yard I can easily move three of them with an SW9 or 44 tonner. Honestly haven't attempted more with that.. yard isn't big enough!

I love containers... they're the modern billboard boxcars.

It’s A end and B end thinking

A-C-D-E-B

Actually I see it even simpler than that - just continue counting from the B end to C, etc. makes sense, jumping back to the A end to restart the count up is just weird.

B-C-D-E-A

vs.

A-C-D-E-B

At least one has "most" of the units "in sequence".

Actually... ...

Actually... 

... don’t “B C D E A” and “A C D E B” have the same number of letters “in sequences”? There’s just one out sequence in each series.  ?

Sequence

[BCDE]A vs. A[CDE]B.

One has at least a four-letter run, with just the A swapped to the other end.

The other has the A, the B, and then the 3-letter run CDE flipped into the middle. Breaks it into three pieces instead of two.

Well, I see it as just the

Well, I see it as just the “B” out of place....

Metal Frames or added weights?

How many, and/or what brands of HO container cars have metal frames, .....or come with added weight(s) such that they can be run empty without a lot of issues?

You'll have to ask an HO modeler.

I can't help you with that one. I'm exclusively N scale.

The Walthers N scale 5 unit Thrall cars are the only ones I can say with certainty are metal, and they come in right at the NMRA reccommendd weight for their per-unit length. As I said, I use cardstock, plastic, cast metal, and now even 3D printed containers in my trains, and also run them empty. There's been no troubles running them at all. The only issue I've had is when I've replaced the wheelsets with Atlas low-profile metal wheelsets. They don't play well with PECO turnouts that are common on N-Trak modules - the NEM flangeways are too big for the narrow Atlas NMRA wheels, and it lets them pick the switches.  Peco turnouts must have the guard rails opposite the frog  shimmed to bring them to NMRA standards to prevent this. 

Running Empty Container Cars

How many folks have experiences with running empty container cars/container trains?

And/or how many have successfully added weight to empty container cars to improve their ride. What different methods have you utilized?.....photos, etc.

Perhaps I should start a new subject thread since I am not asking solely about 53' well cars?