I agree

One does not need a layout or belong to a club to be an active model railroader. But one must at least build a model or a diorama or be actively planning a layout with a deadline for when the planning will end. Even engaging in serious historical researching can quality one as a model railroader so long as the research has some cut off point before construciton begins. I am not suggesting that research cannot or should not continue once construction of the model or diorama or layout begins. Endless planning is not being a model railroader. Subscribing to Model Railroader does not make one an active model railroader.

True

I host regular operating sessions, and attend them on other layouts.  Several of the regular crew members don't have layouts.  They do, however, enjoy participating in the hobby through building or collecting individual models, and participating in activities like shows and op sessions where they can experience the same camaraderie as everyone else.  They're just as much model railroaders as the guys with big layouts, and as a layout owner it's a good feeling to provide a venue for them to run trains and hang out with the guys.

A model railroader is one who models trains, locomotives, etc.

They don't need to run trains, have a layout, or whatever.  If a person makes or collects railroad models, they are by definition a model railroader.

I've seen Elizabeth Allen at many Western Prototype Modelers meets.  I also saw her at the National Train Show in Portland last summer.

I asked her once if she had a layout, and she told me that she really was not interested in running trains, she just enjoyed building locomotives.  She builds some of the most awesome Southern Pacific Locomotives I've ever seen!  I don't think there is any doubt that she is a model railroader.

 " If a person makes or

I prefer to label them as to what they actually do so a guy who builds a layout is a model railroad modelers and a guy who builds a loco or car is a rolling stock modeler for instance. There's plenty of sub categories to hold all the various interests so those without an actual railroad don't need to be labeled as if they are building a railroad. We are all free to jump from category to category much like athletes can run sprint,mid or long distance races or the decathlon if desired. Labels should make it easier to understand the subject not more difficult, so calling everyone a model railroader makes no sense when we can better define them by actual segment they enjoy....DaveB

Am I a model railroader?

I feel like I'm about to type a ghastly sin but here it is.

I really like model railroads but I don't really enjoy making models. I really enjoy operating layouts and I do have a small layout that is not progressing much because I spend more time running trains than building models. Sigh. I even buy RTR equipment and never lift the hood on the locos to take a look underneath although I have played with some of the DCC settings so that they sound good and run smoothly at switching speeds.

So I agree and disagree. For some people its about building trains, for others its about building environments (layouts) for the trains and for others its about running trains through beautiful scenes, for others its about operating layouts (even plywood pacifics) and yes, for others it's simply being part of a common interest club. There are many ways to be a model railroader that appeal to many different people.

What other hobby does that?

"I really like model

   Since your goal is a model railroad and not being a model builder specifically I'd call you a model railroader for sure. I don't think the way one gets the model railroad built matters if the model railroad is the final goal.....DaveB 

Model Railroader???

I am not a model railroader, I want to be a model railroader, But alas I have no where to run trains. I was a model railroader at times, and someday I hope to be again. But for now I am a dreamer with a lot of model railroader stuff.

Regards, John

How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Four. Saying that a tail is a leg doesn't make it a leg. <> Abraham Lincoln

" I was a model railroader at

     If you were and want to be again I'd still call you a model railroader.You don't forget how to swim if you stay out of the water for a few years...  .DaveB 

I realize..

...this column is bringing up contrary points of view on subjects, but this one is about as useful as debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin in my opinion. 

If you have any interest in the hobby then you are a part of the hobby is what I say.  Can I "prove" it or provide evidence to support my view.  If I wanted to take the time to do so I could, but I much rather use the limited amounts of energy to work on other things which is why i am keeping this post brief. 

Ken L.

Who is a REAL model railroader?

I guess it's time for another round of who is a REAL model railroader.

Who cares?  If you enjoy building, that's fine.  Collecting - fine.  Running Lionel's - fine.  Building a detailed layout - fine.   Running like the prototype with lots of paperwork - fine.  Running the trains and switching where the fancy takes you - fine.

Why all the labels?

Personally, I enjoy scratch/parts building, kit building, collecting old kits, collecting new kits, Lionel trains, layout building, running trains, etc.  I buy what interests me without regard to how well it fits a master plan.  And yet I have a master plan for my S scale layout that fills the basement.

My opinion is that you are a model railroader if you think you are.

Paul

Please, no definitions.

Anyone can say they are a model railroader with no need to define that label. So, if you want to express your hobby preference, call yourself a model railroader, but that's it. No definitions of WHY or HOW are necessary unless you want to provide them. You don't need to prove anything.

"Anyone can say they are a

     Sure they can, I can say I'm an astronaut but that don't make it so. Labels are not evil they are just a way to classify and simplify what we are talking about. Recipes specify spices by labels, workers specify tools by labels, mechanics car parts, etc. Without labels we take a huge step backwards. No one is required to use labels when talking about model railroading but it certainly makes it easier to convey our  specific interests within the broader hobby. ........DaveB   

The point ...

Model railroader definition.

Ken

You wrote

...this column is bringing up contrary points of view on subjects, but this one is about as useful as debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin in my opinion. 

My point in Reverse Running is that we as a group seem to have defined model railroading as someone who has a layout or belongs to a club with either a fixed layout or a modular layout. We as hobbyists need to think outside of the box as to who or what is considered a model railroader. If model railroaders as a whole stagnate in our thinking and opinions as to what is and is not model railroading then the hobby will die.

I will kindly disagree with your opinion, I believe this is an important discussion to have.

Break it down, then reassemble

What is a Modeler?  Someone who builds models.

What is a Railroader?  I'd say it is someone who contributes to the operation of a railroad (that would include dispatchers, signal maintainers, sales clerks for shipping accounts, etc., not just train crews).

So a Model Railroader could be someone who contributes to the operation of a model railroad, that is, a railroader, but in a smaller scale.

OR,

a Model Railroader could be someone who builds models of railroads, whether or not they operate, that is, primarily a modeler first, with the subject matter being railroads.

Either works, and allows room for both to coexist.  But I want to add what I think a Model Railroader is NOT.  A person who collects model trains is a collector, not a model railroader.  If they operate those trains or build the models they collect, that makes them a Model Railroader by either definition above.

Then there's the 'armchair' modeler, who may someday build a model or operate a model railroad or both, but for now is just a web surfer or magazine reader.  Again, not a Model Railroader.

I would never discourage anyone from enjoying buying models for a collection - there are some wonderful collections out there in very nice display cabinets, and the collectors might be aghast if the models were run or even handled.  And we all go through slumps where the armchair is warmer than the chair in front of our workbench, but eventually we pick up an Xacto or a throttle and get back to the business of Model Railroading!

(actually, I prefer the term Railroad Modeler for someone who builds models of trains and railroad related things, and Model Railroader for someone whose primary interest is operating model railroads, but that's my terminology and outside the scope of the RevRun article.)

Interesting discussion

I would presume that the more folks that call themselves model railroaders, the better for our hobby.  It's not like the "pretenders" are causing harm or detriment  They are are not impersonating police officers.  You want to call yourself a model railroader, be my guest. Welcome to the hobby.  No problem.  Spend a few bucks exploring the hobby and let me know if you have any questions.  Welcome aboard.  The more, the merrier.  

Length and Strength

Here's another metric - for how long have you been building or operating model trains, and or how often?  If I build a model of a fighter jet, does that make me a military modeler?

I know the question raised in the article was about having a layout.  I agree you can be a model railroader without a layout.  And, I hope we see more modelers building more trains and even building more and better layouts.  But I think the definitions are useful.

Galen

The key is model.

it does not matter if it moves or not. A static diorama can be a railroad model and the modeler who built it no less a railroad modeler than anyone who operates their layout.

As further proof who is a better modeler? Someone who bought a Athearn Big Boy or someone who assembled one of these?

Revell's Big Boy was not meant to operate, but it is a model of a railroad item, and if properly displayed demands of the modeler a comprehension of engineering, track and ballast, scenery techniques and even operations (how the prototype was used? A Big Boy is not a yard switcher).

And since the model does not need to run there is no need for compromises for reliable running, it has to look exact, not look OK and run perfectly. RP-25 wheels? Proto-87? No need, the wheels can be scaled down from the real locomotive.

I believe that MRH slogan "having fun with trains" describes the who is a model railroader. Everything beyond that is a specialization within the hobby (such as proto-modelers, freelance modelers, fantasy modelers, non-moving modelers, real-steam modelers and the list can go on forever).

Regards,

Daniel Kramer

SINCE 1952

HO - SN3 - ON3 - O SCALE - HO AGAIN.    Nary a foot of track laid and I've had all sorts of fun! 

It's on the to do list

I have no layout and I am perfectly content not to.  It is on the to do list but the minimum requirements are not easy nor cheap to fulfill.  First, I model in P48.  Second, I am only interested in having a layout that can run modern 75+ car freight trains or 15 car full length passenger trains.  Gathering the rolling stock and locomotives to meet this goal consumes more than 100% of my hobby budget anyway.

So, could I build a small layout in my townhouse just to claim I have a layout?  Yes.  Do I have any interest in doing so?  Not at all.  Am I collecting the track and signals and other paraphernalia to build the layout I want to do? Yup.  It's all part of the hobby for me.  And if I never get the opportunity to actually build it, that is OK too.

A couple of things regarding

Put it this way...

If you so much as touch* a railroad related model and enjoy it, you are infected. It may take a while for the symptoms to manifest, but they will. Not everyone gets all of the symptoms, of course, or has access to treatment.

The only treatment is palliative, and consists of non-occupational therapy.

*There are anecdotal reports of infection caused by simply viewing "is this a model" photographs.

pqe