copying

As much as I agree with the basic premise about "copying" real life, I'm not so sure of copying others' modeling efforts especially dated and fanticised efforts. I produce model RR decals and would never rely on coping a model, commercial or otherwise unless I know it to be accurate (often not the case)

Cal

Too much emphasis on form & labels

Seems like we can get ourselves so wrapped up in what we call what we're doing. I'd wager that I speak for a vast majority of us when I submit that no matter what modeling path we choose (complete prototypical re-creation, emulation, representation, freelance, caricature, pure fantasy, etc), as long as we're enjoying ourselves and having fun, we're doing it exactly the right way. Why burden ourselves with all this other baggage?

Although, a Middle Earth & Pacific could be really cool! (One transcontinental line to rule them all...)

Jim

Middle Earth & Pacific

"One transcontinental line to rule them all..." Ah yes, but getting a berth would be Mordor!

I can see how copy cats might frustrate some.

I think some people value  being unique, especially if they model something specific.     When someone "copies" them,    it can feel  (somewhat irrationally),  that the specialness and uniqueness is lost.  

These negative feelings are silly.   I know I feel them on occasion,  but instead of grumbling about it,  i squish them and i go shake that guys hand and ask "So you're into XXXXXXXXXX  too?  Cool!"

Personally, when it comes to my favorite modeling subjects  (the electrified lined of the Reading Company and the Northeast Corridor during the late 70s),  I would rather make friends who appreciate what I model,  than being the only one doing what I do. 

Ultimately,  Mr. Fugate is right,  this is a hobby based around copying  a real thing.    There are only so many ways you can innovate.






 

...

Frank Ellison and John Allen weren't exactly "original" either...where John was original was in Great photography, and you may even say not everybody had access to great cameras at that time.

They just got themselves published and then repeated by word of mouth the most to the point now they are all we know about "back then."  But seriously, pick up a couple volumes of old work, look at the sources for their articles, and you'll find just how far back things go.  That Landmark article about car card operation?  Yeah, it cites a prior article, one in which the author says his method is the result of over thirty years of practice and development by not just himself but a large number of people around him.  He's just the guy who put it all down on paper and published it.

Copycats

Organizing a publishable story seems to be a pretty high bar for many people to cross. Ellison and Allen deserve a lot of credit for supplying the words and music.  I don't recall the two of them, or Armstrong, or Paul Larsen, claiming they invented everything. They said, "Here it is, this is how I do it."

What's the phrase? "If You Steal From One Author, It’s Plagiarism; If You Steal From Many, It’s Research."

If you look at models that craftsmen built to exact scale -- in any time period -- they still hold up today as great examples of modelmaking. There are a lot of ways to have fun in the train hobby. Whining and finger-pointing aren't fun.

Not saying it was neccesarily a bad thing....

but Allen McClelland spawned a whole generation of copycats....Tony Koester being chief among them. He preached McClelland's ideas from his bully pulpit as editor of RMC and to this day we have a plethora of Appalachian themed layouts.  Before that I'm sure we had a lot of John Allen copycats...I still am one. The greatest compliment I've ever been paid is when someone once told me a scene I had modeled reminded them of "John Allen style" scenery. Johns popularity was no doubt aided by Linn Westcott just as TK aided Allen McClellands. When someone popularizes a philosophy or a certain theme or technique for doing something people naturally tend to follow what is thought to be the "in" thing. That's human nature and it happens in every hobby.

Michael

Caveat Copycat

There has been model railroading for a LONG time, now.  Matthias Baldwin built models before he built full sized locomotives.  Most of what is worth doing has been done, so true originality would soon become a freak show.  Still, model railroading runs in trends and fashions and those making the case for a new trend make it compellingly.  Therein lies a snare.

Most of us have aspects that we love about our hobby, while other things are not a big priority.  We all need to watch the reasons behind our reasons to ensure that some trend does not distract us from what we love and take us to new heights about which we really don't care. 

The famous "Everyone" might be trending toward fewer and bigger industries.  Personally, I'm a fan of little rural grain elevators, bulk oil facilities, coal sheds, etc.  As realistic as it is, I'm not about to build the one big layout dominating paper mill or whatever.  My models may seem corny by comparison, but I'm doing what I like.

The reason behind the reason for any hobby is recreation.  Copy the goal that refreshes you. 

Depends on your tradeoffs

Depends on the trade-offs that matter to you.

I look at an 1100 sq ft layout with 1200 feet of track to clean and 60 locomotive wheelsets that need constant cleaning to maintain. I also look at the cost of wiring all my dead frogs with frog juicers (or installing contacts to power the frogs) and I look at the cost of installing short protection on all my power district sub-blocks so I don't have an entire power district go down when there's a short, and I look at installing keep alive in my locos so the sound doesn't cut out or the loco doesn't stall out now and then ...  and I also look at the maintenance on all this stuff I need to install.

If I can find something that makes it so I don't need to do all that - it can even cost the same for the one-time install - but if the ongoing maintenance is less, and the run-time experience is improved - then it's of great interest to me.

What I don't know is if the new RC battery systems that exist give me this ROI. But my suspicion is that as RC battery DCC improves, the ROI is there - I just don't know if it's there YET.

Don't just assume there's no return-on-investment for anyone with RC battery DCC or equivalent. And certainly don't begrudge me for wanting to find out.

60 locomotive wheelsets that need constant cleaning

Do they need as constant cleaning as a battery loco needs constant charging? How many spare batteries and chargers will it take to keep up with the work load? Do the dead frogs have anything to do with their apparent need for cleaning?  Maybe the time spent converting to battery power could be spent pruning the railroad tracks and loco fleet so it's easier to maintain? Sixty seems like a lot, how many locos did the real CORP need to serve their large Central Oregon layout:> )  At lot of it is the type of operations desired, one could model the real SP transition era operations here on the Santa Cruz branch with three locos, add three more GP9s or SD9s  when the 80's coal started coming in. ...DaveB

That Landmark article about car card operation?

I recall an article in a 40's or maybe early 50's Model railroader magazine about a couple inviting another couple over for dinner and afterwards they set up an interurban sectional layout and did timetable operations on the floor of their apartment. Drinking Martinis and running trolleys on a shag rug with a couple of interested ladies makes me think we've gone the wrong direction and just called it progress :> ) ......DaveB

copycat

The good ones copy.

The great ones steal.

Here endith the lesson.

You all know what my railroad

You all know what my railroad is called. So I'm proud of copycatting and stealing. Life is good!

Original Car Card Article

I ran into Doug Smith who wrote it up, but he started out by telling how he copied his system from an earlier one used by Watty House

Originality

...

The scary thing about Card Cards, when you extrapolate back what is said in the 1948 article [this method was developed over thirty years of testing with the guys the authro knew] is you realize Car Card operations dates out of the 1910s and 1920s.

Yes, people have been OPERATING for that long - it's not as new of an idea as some might think!!!

Long time back

Have a pre-WWII British book that talks about running to a schedule; early MR's also contain some references to other than just orbiting trains. The info is out there.

Influence vs copying

No question, we're all influenced by the great modeling we have seen that resonates with our own tastes and interests. My favorite model railroads go beyond simple copying of another modeler's work and style of modeling...they take elements from different modelers' techniques to create their own synthesis that is unique. The same is true in any art form...painting, music, cinema. The greats inspire others to follow, but the challenge is to find your own niche that works for you.

You can pick mainstream or eclectic, whatever suits your fancy...and as Joe pointed out, as long as you enjoy it and you are having fun, it's successful for you. And if it resonates with other modelers, you have the pleasure of seeing similar (but individually unique) variations on a theme. It's all good!

When choosing to model the Sonoran Desert region of Arizona, I knew I was 'taking a road less traveled' in the modeling world...certainly it's not a common choice. I was looking to intentionally do something different from my previous layouts. It's forced me to actually observe the places I took for granted most of my life, and really observe them. That has been rewarding, especially as I have since found other modelers taking similar approaches...so we learn from each other and adopt what works for our purposes. There's really no 'intellectual property' on a layout.

Perhaps it's "Generic"

Copying

Imitation is the highest form of flattery. 

It's my fantasy, gosh darn it!

I am building a freelanced layout that I plan to operate prototypically. That doesn't stop me from having my major off-layout destinations being Metropolis and Gotham and the like. Now, that's fun! Seems only fair because I'm selling off my comics collection to finance the railroad.

Call for the Question

I see the question more as this; Are you modeling a prototype (real or imagined) or somebody else's model?

Where I see this at work in a most obvious way is puffball trees.  Someone way-back decided to roll up polyfill or cotton and dip it in foam and stick it on a hill in mass quantities and call it a forest.  Fine.  To me, it doesn't look like a forest.  But here's the rub - someone else thinks it looks okay and decides to use the same technique. 

Now is that person copying the technique, or modeling a forest, or both?  I've read in publications where the modeler using this technique attributes deciding to use it to what they saw on another person's layout (...looking at you, Koester!   ).  And like the old telephone game, each time the phrase is shared it gets modified a little so that what is heard a few generations down the line is not what it was originally.  And others who read the same publication see that technique in use and recognize it based on what they saw on a layout in a magazine, not on a hillside in Appalachia.

Now I don't think puffball trees have EVER looked like trees, but that's just my scenery snobbery.  However, I think the same thing has happened with every innovation in the hobby.  Supertrees, 'Jack Work' pines, etc.  Mantua kits became Tyco molds.  Scratchbuilt craftsman structures are duplicated and offered as plastic kits by AHM/IHC/Model Power/etc. 

I see no problem in using a technique as long as it is used to model a prototype element (or fantasy creation), but that's just my opinion.  And there may be some occasions, like a tribute build, where another modeler's model is the subject of your model.  But I still think the 'best' modeling results when we look to real life for inspiration and use whatever technique available to replicate what we see.  Modelers who do that seem to be lauded as innovators or stand-outs.  Exceptions to that rule might be someone like Furlow (is there really ANYONE like Furlow?) who creates what they see in the mind's eye, but I'd wager that's just an artistic approach to replicating reality.

Galen

Having fun

The last paragraph is the best .  Having fun is what a hobby is all about.

The only problem I see with copying or not copying is when it becomes an end in itself and interferes with your enjoyment of the hobby.  It's like building an around the walls layout because everyone else said a 4x8 is no good.  Well maybe that is good for you.   A finished 4x8 that you enjoy operating is better than an unfinished around the walls layout that can't run a train.  And don't pass up something that everyone else's has just to be different.  I suspect that almost everyone in HO has built the Atlas Signal Tower, Lumberyard, or Station.  And why not, they're easy and fun to build especially for a beginner plus they're inexpensive.

Paul

Enemy of the Good

Paul - I think you hit on something crucial that has become a mantra for me lately - don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  Or, to put it another way, a functional layout completed today is always better than the non-functional layout postponed indefinitely.

Galen