How true!

adjustment may be required, but you can usually get your locos to start moving with very little throttle.

How true! I have found that time spent "tuning" my engines to move at a couple of scale miles per hour is time well invested. A gentle coupling with an engine that stops when you try to get below 10 smph is virtually impossible. It is a pleasure to slow you engine to crawl and couple to a car or string of cars. Until you try it for yourself you probably don't realize how good it can be.

Dick

Slow speed operation

Using a Pulse Width Modulation throttle and DC you can achieve the same result and a lot cheaper.

Skip

Great Article

I have to say this is a great article as it almost entirely states the philosophy behind my own switching railroad. I use DCC for the ability to gently couple the loco to cars without bumping he slack. I like staring slowly and watching the take-up of coupler slack down the line of cars. I have my sound system turned down really low so it is more a background burble. 

When my daughter popped over we were able to operate the layout together with a loco at each end of the layout, Now I have just about finished the track on my staging / classification . engine service area we will certainly be running tow locos simultaneously without any block cab trickery or learning which switch does what. And frankly, in the scheme of things, it isn't much more that a good DC pack and loco would cost ayway

Slow speed operation

I often said the same thing about  quality DC PWM controllers being as good as DCC. But times have changed. Now that storage capacitors (TCS keep alive is a pre packaged example for DCC decoders) have become relatively cheap and small, DCC is far better at low speed operations compared to DC. For example, I purchased a 0-4-0 Hornby Pug (00 scale) for an industrial shunting locomotive. Out of the box it ran like a slot car. At low speed it stalled frequently due to only having 4 wheel pickup. A quality DC PWM controller on it's own could not solve this poor pick up problem. After installing a DCC decoder and a TCS keep alive, I can now shunt reliably without stalling at lower speeds compared to typical RTR  DC diesel models. Since converting to DCC, I no longer worry about extra pickups in my brass steam locomotives. They now will typically overun a 200mm long dead section of track. The minimum speed I now get is 1/10th that compared to the best PWM DC controller I have. DCC technology has made shunting with inertia easy.

Terry Flynn.

Born again DCC user.

DCC Impulses

I, too, am a lone wolf operator most of the time. I'm also a bit lazy!  Using DCC enables me to switch between locos and to also operate without having to select a bunch of electrical switches. Essentially, DCC allows me to wander all over the layout only having to throw turnouts as needed. For shelf layouts or those that use close following of the operators (walk-around) it really lightens the load on the operator. DCC has made operation more fun than ever for this guy. I am also a retired Broadcast Engineer and have a goofy imagination which leads me into all sorts of DCC applications , especially using sound and animation. I'm looking forward to more in BOTH DCC columns. Who knows, maybe I'll get froggy one of these days and even submit an article or two from our new layout just getting under construction. Keep the Rails Narrow! Best Regards, Rick Bell,  Chief Cook & Bottle washer, On30 Spring Creek Railway, Montrose, CO

Who needs (discrete) block switches?

Dear MRHers,

Analog or DCC is not in question for my mind,
but honestly, please consider and appreciate the simplicity of the situation that,

when one parks a loco on a spur,

and closes the (track) turnout,
(which we do all the time and not give a second thought about it), 

one is effectively/simultaneously/unthinkingly "closing/opening" a track block (electrical) switch too?

I see a number of comments RE "too many confusing block switches",
but AFAICS the issue is not the block control, or the electrical functionality of the switches themselves.
Rather, it's the User Interface of poorly designed/positioned/deployed switchgear and/or centralised "control panels".

By linking the "block switching" of any given track location to it's associated turnout control,
(yes, even CI groundthrows and a microswitch will do the job),
we get all the operational behaviour/control of block-switching,
while apparently eliminating the "confusing toggle switches"...

(In reality, we're just mechanically linking the operation of 2 "functions", physical turnout throw and electrical block switching, in one entirely-logically-associated "mental move"...)

(and, from a guest operator's P.o.V, the instruction need be no more complex than
"Pay attention to your loco, and the turnout you are next heading towards
IE if the turnout is set for your loco, then the track power will be too",

which from the number of "shorting frogs and running thru mis-set turnouts" posts on this and other forums,
is a "How to drive a train 101" lesson a significant number of DCC users apparently fail to heed...)

As practical examples:
- Broughton Vale Tramway

http://www.zelmeroz.com/album_model/members/klyzlr/BroughtonVale.pdf

http://members.optushome.com.au/jdennis/broughton/frameset.html

HOn30, 2'x4', Aussie Logging, hosts 3x trains + 1x Railcar simultaneously. Analog control with a single tethered throttle. Not a single discrete "block toggle switch" in sight, and yet under pressure show conditions, even 5-minute-old operators were able to run any given train they wished, INC switching, without ever having a "a train other than the one I explicitly want to run is moving" situation

- Brooklyn : 3AM

http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page87/

HO SG, 2x4, NYCH RR, hosts 4x trains simultaneously. Analog control with a single analog throttle INC built-in "dumb timer reverser" option. Not a single discrete "block toggle switch" in sight, and yet under pressure show conditions, even 5-minute-old operators were able to run any given train they wished, INC switching, without ever having a "a train other than the one I explicitly want to run is moving" situation.

I'll grant that once we get more than 1x simultaneous human realtime operator/"engineer" in play, things start getting slightly more complex, and DCC's featureset starts "fitting the problem criteria" more closely
(the "best" solution to any problem is the one that best-fits the problem criteria, while not tripping over Occum's Razor)

but, and maybe it's just me, I tend to have a "one human, one train-in-motion" operation methodology, irrespective of the control system in play. (I can't keep track of more than one train simultaneously,
and if I'm switching I tend to be very focussed solely on the switching moves I'm performing...
...it's the core of the "fosussing on performing the role of 'Engineer'" which is central to wringing the most operational action out of a small/micro/switching layout... ).

If I want to run Train #2, I'll "park" Train #1 first, which implies closing a track turnout on Train #1 (see above).

SO, at least on the grounds of "confusing block switches"/"user interfaces", I'd respectfully suggest that it's not "analog's fault", but rather a failure on the part of the layout designer/builder/wiring-bod to deploy a truly situation-appropriate control interface...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

...

It's taken me a couple days to think this out...

First, the club layout I am on still uses control panels for managing the remote switches - and they work very well.  If you're using remote anything, you're using a lot of wire - doesn't matter if your DC or DCC.

Now at home I am and will likely remain for a long time DC.  And I really really like everything I can do with DCC< but for what DC offers, it's a better choice.

Let us start with a random locomotive.  Inherently, all locomotives will run on DC without the purchase of additional components.  We're talking simple motor go.  The time to get the average locomotive ready To Go on DC is the amount of time it takes to remove it from the box and set it on the tracks.  I can run anything on the market right now.  Anything.  I don't run anything with a decoder in in, because I don't want to blow the decoder.

Now let us suppose I was running DCC at home.  Now, before I run anything, I must put a decoder in it.  $20-$100, depending on which one I get.  Are we done?  No.  Now I must open up my locomotive and rewire in the decoder.  An hour, each, perhaps?  This wouldn't bee too bad if I was just wanting to run one, or two locomotives.  But...let's say I want to run anything that may cross my doorstep, including this pair of very nice FP-7s that just came through the door...They're DC, and to run them right now costs me nothing; to run them on DCC will cost a decoder PLUS an hour[or so] for the installs.

Let us say my interest is to run maybe once for 15 or 20 minutes every three months or so, or when my other projects give me some time off [the novel is taxing!]  I could upgrade one locomotive to DCC, or I could run 10 locomotives around the loop for 2 minutes each.  It really comes down to how you want to spend your time in that moment.

Right now I have the flexibility to run everything in my closet without making any further modifications.  I do have my DCC fleet, that I use to run at the club, and a couple are sound, but by and large, all I need at home is covered by a single $25 Power pack and a handful of $3.00 switches, although I can get a very large box of toggle switches for very very little cost from Electronics Goldmine.

http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=GP49

Yes, that's right, 15 switches for $2.49...plus shipping...[minimum order is $10, so I buy five units; with shipping it comes out to 18.64], which comes out to $0.25 a switch and I have 75 of them.  They'll do the job they're meant to do just fine.  A reel of wire, two colors, we're talking another $10?  That's enough to wire up a simple bedroom 10 x 10. 

I realize I do not have the individual control of lights and I don't have the digital sounds of "the real thing."  That being said, I do have the sound of The Real Thing that is front of me, and that is a beautiful sound for a locomotive all unto itself.  The Tyco growl or the Fleishmann gnash or the Mantua grind or the Bachmann Hum, for example, they're each very distinctive and sounds I rather enjoy.  The Tyco growl even almost sounds like an Alco!

I like DCC and I really like all the options it enables.  That being said...on DC I can run everything as it is Right Now and save that time to do something else.  That's why I stick with it at home.

you had no choice but to use

you had no choice but to use DCC as there was no engineer in the cab

Dis-information?

I've been running DCC in N scale for around 15 years now, and I've not heard ONE instance of someone blowing a properly installed DCC decoder just by running it on analog track power. In fact, decoders are SPECIFICALLY designed to allow running on analog. If a decoder blew when you put it on an analog track, it would have blown in DCC too, because it wasn't installed properly.

An hour?  Probably closer to 5 minutes... or less. You see, that pair of FP-7s (and, in fact, most locomotives that are of new manufacture) probably is designed with DCC in mind. In N scale, most everything with a light board has a drop-in decoder replacement available. Installation time is less than 5 minutes and can be done with nothing but a single screwdriver.

Putting a decoder in my SP Daylight was even faster - all I had to do was pull the tender shell off, pull out a plug, and plug in the decoder. It LITERALLY took me longer to pick up the decoder in the bag and open it than it did to install the decoder. It had the shell back on and was ready to run in less than 90 seconds.

Now, if you want to install working ditch lights, marker lights, sound.... yeah, that all takes longer. But it takes longer (or is flat out impossible) with analog, too!

My most recent purchases though (N Scale)...  2 x GE 44 tonners, and 2 x UP DD40AXs, came with decoders factory installed, and for only about $80.00 each.

And if all you want to do is run one ordinary locomotive at a time, no control of lights, no  control of sound, no possibility of expanded capabilities, then that's all you need. But that's NOT what DCC is meant for, and your comparison is apples to kumquats. Using DCC in THAT application is using a sledgehammer to crack an egg.

DCC is primarily meant to run MULTIPLE TRAINS.  As few as two, to as many as 120 (or even more, with some of the upcoming systems).

Take that same little roundy-round layout, and try THIS with analog...

Two trains, running half the layout apart on the single track main, in the same direction, each on a (unattended except in emergency) throttle. A third local (under your control), running the OPPOSITE direction on the same single-track main, making pickups and ducking into sidings to clear the main for approaching trains. (1)

Suddenly your roundy-round gets a LOT more interesting... but that scenario would be an operational nightmare under analog control.

The only difference...  hooking up DCC.

And it's false economy, because it fails to compare on a basis of equal capability. You can buy a used Trabant, or a new Koenigsegg, but about the only thing they have in common is 4 wheels.

Use what you want at home... but don't even pretend that you're making any kind of valid comparison between analog and DCC operations.

Slow speed

Bruce

I'm a lone wolf by choice.  I just prefer operating alone with no future plans to change.  Like Bruce's shelf layout, my layout was planned for one man operation.  It's a short line and runs one train out and back a day.  My DC throttle also allows me to slow down to about 1 or 2 scale mph to couple up to my train.  No hesitation at all.  I do have sound that runs through speakers under by layout (9 speakers spread out over 100 feet).  Now, with all of this said about DCC, I'm still considering an NCE system and give DCC a chance.  I had a EASYDCC system but sold it.  Most of my friends around here use NCE so I felt that would be the best way to go as I'd have technical support and LOCAL help.  Just my two cents worth.  :O)

Great article Bruce!  I really enjoyed reading it and gave you 5 stars!  You got me to thinking!  :o)

Tom

...

And now you have just heard of one.

The blown decoder in question was a low quality decoder in the first place, a Bachmann Modern 4-4-0.  It was fine on DCC.  Smoked it on DC.  Who knows, someday when I'm feeling like I need new skills, I'll rebuild the board.  All I know is, you won't smoke a component worth more then 50 cents on raw DC with just a motor in the chassis.  You may smoke a bulb now and then if you forget a resistor.  With DCC, you have the price of the board at risk until you fire it up and everything checks out good.

Are you aware of what locomotives I'm are talking about?

These are yellow box Atlas-Austria FP-7s, they were built before DCC was ever even envisioned.  I know what it takes to install DCC in these locomotives correctly, it will take about an hour when all is said and done.  To run on DC, all I have to do is open the box and throw it on the track.  Done.  The others are locomotives elitists wouldn't even consider "model trains," those old things made before modern manufacture.  Yes, I threw that term out there, but I'm specifically talking about the bachmann-tyco-lifelike-mantua-roco-fleischmann-athearn-bowser-varney-brass out there that was designed before the 1990s without decoder sockets or even circuit boards.  It Runs if you give it the juice.  if it runs, the railroad is complete.

Mind you, these FP-7s will run very well on DCC, if and when I get around to dropping decoders into them.  They have nice hefty can motors in them and they weigh a ton.  That being said, it costs me nothing in either money or TIME to enjoy them RIGHT NOW on my DC system. 

There's a reason the DCC install takes longer, once you have it open, you want to get all the electronics done in that one shot.  That way, you hopefully never have to open the locomotive back up again.  Opening and closing locomotives is when most damage occurs, in my experience, it's not something one wants to do more than a couple times in the lifetime of the locomotive.

There's a LOT of this stuff still on the second hand market, tables and tables and tables of it.  And it all runs on DC, no upgrades needed.  Some of it runs pretty well, some of it runs poorly.  When you have a pile of DC locomotives, you run each one for as long as you want until you get tired of it, take it off the track and put on the next, just like a record on a record player.  It's not as fancy as the 100 disc CD changer, but then when your collection is a long shelf of old vinyl, well, what sense does a 100 disk CD changer make?  It's the same principle with old DC locomotives.  After running ten locomotives, a half hour has past and it's time to go to bed, or eat dinner, or do that other project that is a better investment of free time.  That may even be building a structure, or a switch, or any of the million projects available within this hobby alone.

My latest purchase is an SD-7, gutted but it has the motor, for about $26.00 after shipping.  That's 32.5% of the price of your decoder ALONE, never mind what you paid for your locomotive; I can get Three whole identical units for the price of your one decoder.  If I was a family man with three kids, and my choice was between one locomotive with DCC and three locomotives with DC, guess which one makes more sense - this is not a trick question, unless you haven't ever raised multiple kids!

If I were to just run it DC with no care for lights, all I have to do is throw it on the track behind my $25 DC transformer [Athearn, my LHS] and it will go.  Those FP-7s I mentioned earlier, I got the pair for $30.  They run well.

Going back to those hypothetical kids, yes, the kids will still have to wait their turn to turn the layout, but when they do, they'll be able to run their very own locomotive, or they'll have a choice between three locomotives [if they can share].

Exactly.  If all you want to do is run one ordinary locomotive at a time, which is the most the average ordinary human being does in this hobby on their personal bedroom layout/4x8 [counting everybody, not just the rabid fans] DCC is using a sledgehammer to crack an egg.  You have reiterated my point PRECISELY!!

Well, let's see, my mainline is 30' long.  I like trains around 10' long.  Tell me how I'm going to fit in train two, much less train three, while train one is running around on the main.  This layout is a round the walls layout, mind you, but I didn't cram a  whole bunch of track in my switching areas. It's a single track mainline, with two passing sidings, the second of which is only about 5 feet long.  That short siding is for runaround moves and allowing short trains to sit in the hole.

If I have train 2 on the layout, it HAS to sit and wait until train one is back in the passing siding and then pulls out - there's something called safe following distance.  There are simple electronic circuits that will automate this little action, including the throwing of the switches after each run.

My Egg is not big enough for your sledgehammer.

No, it is not, because that handful of switches and a power pack gets trains moving on that layout.  If trains are moving, you're looking at about as far as the average runner goes, even if they switch, set out, and park locomotives between jobs.  And to be honest, you're looking at the full scope of the operational hobby for many people, in the amount of time they have to play with it.  This setup provides between a half hour and an hour of operating, where an operating session on my layout is defined as running every locomotive/train combination you wish at least once, while setting out cars and locomotives as one wishes.  Yes, you're taking a lot of engines [and cars] on and off the track, but that's the reality of the 10'x10' room with a no man's land center.  My layout capacity is literally perhaps 20 cars, maximum.  Any more and it's a parking lot.

Don't even pretend for a moment that DCC is the model train hobby.  The model train hobby is running trains.  How you do it is a matter of economy versus functionality.  DCC does it VERY well, but DCC is a sledgehammer.  It does big jobs really really well.  And it adds a ton of features, all very nice features we all WANT.  That being said, it comes at a price.  That price is not a trivial amount, either, it's enough money to eat for a month.  We do not NEED DCC to enjoy the hobby, hence why there are so many home layouts that still use DC alone.

I'm doing my very best here to show you that there IS an envelope within which DC makes perfect sense, where DCC becomes a questionably expensive investment.

It's a hobby that costs money and time

Another mostly lone wolf

While my current layout is too early stage for operating sessions, my past history and future likelihood is for a large percentage of my operations time to be lone wolf.  For me, with about 70 feet of mainline planned, plus 25 feet of hidden runaround, staging, close to 100 feet of helix track (50 feet double helix), about 60 turnouts, two visible yards, a large paper mill with lots of switching, and provision for two simultaneous separate continuous running options, DCC is the only way for me to go.  It will allow me to have at least 2 trains running continuous (more if they are speed matched) plus doing switching at the same time with another in several different locations all as a lone wolf. 

Yet, I currently have DC power while building, because it will be at least a year before I can even think of running more than one train at once and I already have two old DC power packs.  I am wiring for DCC because that's the goal, but DC for now is short-term 'cheaper' for getting things built because it is zero incremental cost until I actually am ready to handle more capabilities and shift my spending from just getting things built to focusing on operating multiple trains.  There are no wasted electrical components, either, since I already have stuff from my previous very small lone-wolf HO layout.  

It bothers me, though, that either the DC proponents or the DCC proponents would either diss or take a superior attitude.  We all have different goals in the hobby.  Rather than trying to scare new entrants with the cost of DCC, or at the other end tell them it is next to useless to go DC, we should encourage people to think about what their goals are both short term and long term.  I believe there really may be a lot of very small starter layouts that will always be mostly lone-wolf (I'm not sure if there is a statistically valid way to poll that since smaller layouts might be less likely to be MRH contributors).  If their goals do not ever include running multiple trains at once, then no amount of multi-train features in DCC is relevant.  On the other hand, if they have multi-train operations in mind, then what is their timeline, and what is their budget trajectory over that timeline?  Is multi-train next year or 5 years away?  Do they have an old DC pack or able to get a used one cheap on eBay that satisfies their needs for several years?  If I were not expecting multi-train operation for 5 years, I would want to wait to see how much things have improved 5 years from now to buy DCC.  In my case, I know I need it in 2014, so I don't have the opportunity to wait and see how much things improve further, so as I started with - DCC becomes the obvious choice in late 2014 once I have enough built, but not before then since I do have to place some time sequence on my spending.

My point is, we should encourage people to THINK about their goals and to PLAN, and to actually match their plans, dollars, and timelines when deciding what to do today.  We shouldn't be trying to come up with every reason we can think of to convince them that our own personal choice is the only choice for them, especially if our personal choice would have them buy far more capability than they might need if they are a very small layout, single train, lone wolf for the next several years. In fact, encouraging the small layout at low cost can be a way to get more people to fall in love with the hobby, and as many of us have, to then move to more ambitious plans and equipment later.

-Ed

...

Ed, that is very well put.

Holding off on the upgrade to take advantage of technological advances is a very good reason to hold off; for example, five years ago there wasn't SPROG, and there weren't these smart phones in common usage.  If you wanted to do DCC, you were looking at one of the big names and if you were serious, you were looking at one of their larger sets [the smaller sets look great on the surface, but the Digitraz Zephyr, for example, is a dead end as far as expansion go].  Further, we didn't have the Bachmann DCC-Sound offerings back then, either. 

I almost bought a DCC system in 2007, and I am extremely glad I held off.  For one, I took the layout down in 2008, so it would be sitting in the box right now losing value just sitting.  Furthermore, now there's a number of options to consider that provide quite a wide range of possibilities.  Perhaps now it's a SPROG III and a power booster for me, because that's the only parts I'm missing at this point.  A little more time and I may be able to build my own home brew system, seeing how there are published plans to build the components online.  I held off on the smart phone purchase until I absolutely had to do it, and now that I have it, there's one more component changing my future direction.

If we extrapolate forward five years, perhaps by then the idea of a common throttle bus will be standard, which means you'll no longer be choosing a DCC system based upon how the throttle is shaped, or how the throttle logic functions.

Yes, it does cost time and money.  What I object to is the "Mercedes-Cadillac Standard."   My purpose here is to discourage the one size fits all, thinking in autopilot approach.

You're saying I don't love the hobby Enough because I don't have DCC at home?  This again I object to, this idea that those people who run on DC are somehow inferior model railroaders.

There isn't any real challenge for me to put a decoder in, it's just plumbing wires - it's easy tedious work that takes real time plus the investment of an additional component.

Today, there is Option A) wire locomotives to run Someday, or optionb) Run all locomotives on DC NOW.  Option B doesn't cost me anything today or tomorrow.  Option A means I'm not doing something else - and that opportunity cost is something our modern human being should certainly keep in mind.

DC may not be suitable once you get into multi locomotive calculus, but there's a lot of land where a single DC source is all you need to function.  The way DCC is sold, it is sold as the one size fits all silver bullet.  In reality, there are places and situations where it's unnecessary overkill.

Two comments

1) Folks - I got you thinking and exchanging ideas. That was my goal. Thanks for sharing.

2) I tweaked the loco in the video a bit. I now have the drivers moving about 1 RPM on the slowest speed that my Cab-06 will set. And there are four chuffs per revolution - without a cam.

See the new video at

DCC operation and uncoupling

Bruce, I've seen automatic uncoupling in a few videos like yours. I just figured the fingers/pick/etc were edited out. Is this feature, barring uncoupling magnets, something i'm unaware about in DCC? Are they special couplers? 

Looking forward to advancing to DCC for my new layout. Being a sound engineer, i'm surprised I haven't already!

Brad

I edited out the uncoupling,

Totally authentic!