Good Article, some other options

Dear Matt, MRH team,

Good to see an article covering practical sound deployment. Very much enjoyed the read. However, there are a number of currently-available options which were not covered, and a minor few issues which may need to be addressed.

In order of appearance.

1 - the ITTC modules are very effective as "plug n play" sound modules. However, being ISD chip based, they do not allow easy adjustment of the sound to suit given layout situations. ("Ah, you've got the ITTC Yard sound module under your layout, I'd recognize that air-release sequence anywhere").

They are also limited in frequency response and total sound duration. Limited audio performance is already (unnecessarily) hamstringing the perception of Layout Sound and Scale Sound as "a toylike add-on to the 'serious' hi-spec 3D modelling on the layout". (check the "Video2" within the article. The distortion which can be plainly heard is not a factor of the camera/audio rig and online video compression, that's what as ISD chip actually sounds like. Some sound is more fun than NO sound, but that sound certainly won't fool anyone into thinking it's "Scale Sound").

It also can, if deployed badly, contribute to actually _unsettling_ a layout viewer. Excessive volume and/or distortion is known in Pro Audio and Auditory Studies circles to contribute significantly to the negative repose of a viewer/listener. Indeed, how many times have you heard a layout viewer complain that the excessove distortion of a hi-volume DCC sound decoder is giving them a headache? It's not strictly the volume that's the problem, but the distortion being introduced by pushing the poweramp and speaker that hard. ISD-chips limited sound specs introduce distortion _by_design_. When deploying layout sound systems, it's worth taking this into account.

Limited sound duration tends to make modellers ask for the "background sound" modules to loop-play. This is fine, but inevitably results in the complaint, "I hate sound loops, they get monotonous, and you hear the same sound every 90 seconds".

NB that both the sound duration and audio performance issues have been looooong since engineered past in the domestic audio world, so there is little reason beyond $$$ as to why modellers whould have to accept ISD-based solutions as "THE way to add sound to their layout". That said, the average modeller does _not_ have to add a PC to play sound either! keep reading

(I'd respectfully suggest that an ISD-based module would _not_ be able to live up to MRH's oft quoted "benchmark" for a model/scene,

"Yes, it's a model...")

2 - Using 1" thru 4" speakers is a very do-able solution for strategic layout sound deployments. However, without a suitable speaker enclosure, that speaker will be flapping it's cone in the breeze, and simply making "turbulent air", _not_ "pushing sound" towards the viewer. Given that the article is covering using the poweramp that is built onto the ITTC modules, which is not all that powerful, wasting it's limited wattage by not efficiently coupling the speaker driver to the air is a significant issue, not to mention a significant way to degrade what limited audio spec the ITTC mod is capable of giving.

3 - Agreed, mounting the speakers low and in front of the layout fascia _can_ work under some circumstances. However, such single-speaker "point source" situations often do not truly achieve "Scale Sound" reproduction. Similarly, given a number of these modules scattered around he layout room, the individual "point sources" will attemmpt to sum (or "mix") together in the air between the speakers and the viewer's ears. Just as with water, sound-travelling-thru-air does not "scale well", and the results of such an arrangement of modules/speakers is likely to be cacophany, not "scale sound".

4 - I like the idea of adding a looping "traffic sound" under/around highway overpasses and similar model scens. However, stop for a moment and consider
* a car driving by you on a street

sounds noticeably different to

* that same car driving over a bridge/overpass, under which you are standing

Why? technically it's called "Acoustic Ambience". It's the same phenomenon that makes a loco sound different when it's running accross a field, as compared to running in a cutting or tunnel.

ISD chips have _no_way_ or being tweaked to replicate such acoustic effects. Again, this is what makes the difference between "oh, there's car sounds around the bridge" and "wow, you can really hear the sounds of the cars on the highway" (Fun Sound VS Scale Sound)

5 - The Raritan River scene works well with the ISD modules, as the sounds involved are within the audio range of the module. It's not being asked to scream loudly, or reproduce frequencies beyond it's digital limits. However, wouldn't it be cool if you could actually "fly the seagulls" around the scene sonically? Maybe get different waves-lapping-on-the-shore sounds at either end of the bridge? Place a fisherman in a boat right about mid-stream? All of these and more are do-able _right_now_, with a modicum of "sonic kitbashing", and a different player.

6 - As well as the list of websites with downloadable soundbites,
(2 of the 3 listed are "sign up and pay for" options),
There is also the "FreeSound project", which as it's name suggests, is a similar sound-library site, with _no_ attendent costs.

http://www.freesound.org/

6a - While we're talking about sound sources, can we please make a small yet siginificant point?
That being, if you only ever think of layout sound in terms of "what hardware to use", the results will never be up to what your "mind's ear" says it should be. Hardware without a _decent_source_sound/soundfile_ is just that, a pile of $$$$ silent hardware.

I strongly suggest that it's better to:
* start with the _Sound_ first,
* work out exactly what _your_ "Mind's ear" says it should sound like,
* Then nut out what hardware is required to make the desired "Scale Sound" happen...

7 - I'd also note that if you're looking for something with a bit better audio specs than an ISD-based module,
has discrete "Trigger Inputs" to start sound playback,
discrete "Control Outputs" to enable animation/light/relay/motor <> sound control
and uses readily-available SD chips as upgradable/user-loadable sound storage
(2Gb SD chip can hold 200+minutes of CD-Spec audio!!!!
Long enough to "loose yourself" in a decent duration loop,
and a audio specification that most human ears will actually accept as "a real recording")

 then you could do a lot worse than the DreamPlayer by FantaSonics/Pricom

http://www.fantasonics.com/scaledreams/player.html

(NB I am NOT involved with FantaSonics or Pricom in any way, except as a satisfied customer and fan!!!)

7a - while you're at Fantasonics, if you've been wondering what I've meant by "Scale Sound", have a read of the Fantasonics "Scale Sound Manual"

http://www.fantasonics.com/scaledreams/player.html

8 - There is also a Yahoogroup which has a lot of useful info re both Hardware and Sound-design approaches to LayoutSound. This may be of use to some readers of the article.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LayoutSound/

Have to say I loved the article, and am really glad to see more publicity for sound deployment in model railroading. It's easy to do, the hardware required has been available for a long time, and is really quite cost effective. However, there's a marked difference between "Plug n Play" sound which is definitely more fun than _no_sound_, and true "Scale Sound" which provides fully immersive supporting enhancement to our layouts, and aims as high in it's end result as our finely-detailed "3D models"...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Adding Sound to Your Layout.

Mr. Snell did a great job with this article and I'm a firm believer in adding sound (not just in locos) to your layout.  I've added sound to my layout so far in two areas:  my freight yard, and my downtown (Hoovertown) area.

What I've discovered is that sound, when used properly can really bring your layout alive.  I've also discovered that it can also be a huge annoyance.  The difference is in how often the sound "loop" repeats.  For crossing signals of course it should repeat exactly the same for each loco crossing the intersection.  Even with this if a loco is going across the intersection every 30 seconds after a certain amount of time (different for different people) it can start to be irritating.

For my layout I've worked to try and cut down on the repetition as much as possible.  For my Matthews freight yard there is a LED welder with sound module in one of the pits in the roundhouse.  The welding sound and LED flash loop is about 30 seconds long.  To activate (and turn off) the welding flash / sound sequence I've installed three magnetic reed switches in the track around the layout.  I've also installed magnets on the bottom of hopper cars.  Usually I have two "magnetic" hopper cars on one train and one "magnetic" hopper car on the other train.  .  Since the trigger for the sound module is "on / off" each time a magnet passes over a reed switch it turns the module on or off.  When both trains are running around the layout the sound module is activated somewhat randomly as the trains with their magnets pass over the reed switches.

Besides the welder sound module in the freight yard I also have another source of sound in the yard area.  To avoid short sound loops for both the Matthews freight yard and the Hoovertown downtown district I use cheap MP3 music players.  I make sure that they are the kind that use a battery so that I can power them from a transformer (don't get the USB rechargeable type).  The two MP3 music players that I bought I got off the web for $20.  Since the MP3 players are stereo you can use one unit to provide sound for two completely different areas by recording different sound tracks on each track.  This works out to only $10 per "module"

I've also used the web to get my sounds to build my sound files which are one hour long.  There are many free sound effects available on the web.  There's no reason that they couldn't be longer. For the freight yard the sound track has some of the following sounds randomly included:  hammering (both small and BIG hammers), grinding, welding, air compressor, air tools of various types, and the "crew" talking.  For the downtown area the sounds include:  traffic, including an assortment of cars, trucks, and big trucks, car horns honking, people talking, kids playing (there's a part right in front of the town), and an occasional jet plan flying over.  Both of the sound files include short intervals of low sound or no sound.

For all sounds, volume is important and I keep my sound levels fairly low.  It's interesting to see a guest to the railroad look up when they hear one of the jet planes fly over in the trainroom or peak into the roundhouse looking for the people talking!

Rick

Dear Rick, A few questions

Dear Rick,

A few questions and comments if I may...

Yes, "short repeditive annoying loops" is one of the biggest complaints heard thru the LayoutSound yahooGroup about deploying sound on model layouts. Unfortunately, the prevalence of short-duration ISD-based sound modules does nothing to change this issue

MP3 players are indeed a source of easy-to-deploy long-duration loop capable playback devices, which are cheap, and readily available. Tag-team them with a cheap 2.1 PC multimedia speaker rig, and you've got a potent layout-sound "throw-pack" which can whisper "city ambience" most of the day, while still having the "power in reserve" readily to "shout" a police siren call or plane takeoff as required.

These "shout" or "callout" sounds that rise above the vele of the "ambience" emphasise to the viewer/listener that "Yes, there's sound, and yes it's at a low (scale appropriate) volume, but I _could_ be louder, if I wanted to be...  "

Using dual-audio-channel (stereo) playback devices such as CD and MP3 players, (and even older cassette players!), is a useful idea. However, but definition, the sound in the 2 disparate "scenes" is inherrently locked in playback sync. No biggie, but something to be aware of.

BUT, all of this hardware talk notwithstanding, I'm going to ask the same question asked earlier. Where do you get the _Sounds_? Without a sound (or sound file), the player is just a lump of silent hardware.

Rick, you've mentioned that you get many of your sounds from online. Can I ask,
- how do you get them into the MP3 player?
- Do you have to convert them in any way IE WAV format> MP3 format?
- Do I therefore imply that you are using a Audio Editing application?
- Have you played with adjusting the EQ/Volume/Pan?
- Do you use the "Multitrack" capability of the Audio Editor to mix more than 1 sound file together at any given time?

Where I'm heading is, the Audio Editor is to ScaleSound modelling,
what your X-acto knife + ACC + workbench + stocks-of-styrene+stripwood+brass is in your physical modelling.

Once you've nerved up to open and play with the Audio Editor, all manner of "Scale Sound" capabilities are open
- Basic File conversion
- Custome soundtracks (as Rick has done)
- adjusting sounds for speaker acoustic issues/mounting acoustics
- dynamically panning/moving sounds between the 2 channels of a "stereo playback device"
- adding "ambiences" around dry "point-source" sounds

Above all, Rick I totally agree with you, LayoutSound oft makes it's best impression when it's set "just below conscious level". If the viewer can walk into the layout room, and _not_ immediately say "oh, you've got soundmodules installed",

but later on, when leaning in to view the detail of your cityscape, suddenly realises,
"...hey, I can hear a dog barking in there somewhere..."

then you know you've got the mix _just_right_

Good to meet another active "LayoutSound" modeller...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Sound for your layout

Prof,

Thank you for your comments and questions.  I'll attempt to answer your questions first:

Q: "Where do you get the _Sounds_?"

A: I get my sounds from a number of web sites.  I did a search on "free sound effects and found many sites that had them. 

Q: "how do you get them into the MP3 player?"

A: My MP3 players either come with a USB plug that plugs directly into a computer, or they come with a cable that plugs into the player and the other end has a USB port of my computer.  Once the player is plugged in, it looks just like an external drive.  Sound files can be clicked & dragged onto the MP3 player

Q: " Do you have to convert them in any way IE WAV format> MP3 format?"

A:  It depends on the format I find on the web - some are WAV format and some are already MP3 format.  The ones that aren't MP3 I do convert to MP3.  There are a number of free software converters available.

Q: "Do I therefore imply that you are using a Audio Editing application?"

A: Yes, I use a freeware audio editing application to combine the individual sound files and to "normalize" the sound track (make them all about the same volume level).

Q: "Have you played with adjusting the EQ/Volume/Pan?"

A: No, not specifically that however; I did add the echo effect to the roundhouse sound track to make the sound more realistic.

Q: "Do you use the "Multitrack" capability of the Audio Editor to mix more than 1 sound file together at any given time?"

A: Yes, I do some simple mixing.  I've even mixed the same two files together differently to make it sound like more kids playing (for the Hoovertown sound track).

Some of my future sound projects will include a sound track for my waterfall, a sound track for my mining operation (rock crushing) and I will reuse part of my roundhouse sound file (remixed) for my metal fabrication facility.  There will also be a "night" sound track that includes crickets, frogs, etc that will only play when the overhead lights are dimmed.  A photocell will control the playing of the night track.

By the way, I've had some experience in audio (and video) editing as I used to do the video productions at my old church.  I've used probably a half dozen video and audio editors and enjoy the process. 

If you, or anyone is interested in getting my sound files, I'll be glad to share them.  One is for a roundhouse / back shop / fabrication environment and the other is for a downtown city area.  Both files are about an hour long, so the files are rather large - we'll have to figure out how to distribute them.

Best wishes,

Rick

I have been a "semi-armchair" modeler for 20 years.

I am finally within "sniffing distance" of getting a room for a model railroad!  The contractor is coming over this afternoon to look at a spare bedroom that needs a floor.  Once the floor is in, I will install floor to ceiling book cases to put the grand children's toys on lower shelves and books on the upper shelves and free up my other spare bedroom for the railroad.

My model railroad will probably not include sound to start with, and the first sound will probably be in the locomotive.  That being said, I think I would eventually like to experiment with sound both train sounds and ambient sounds to match the scenes I've modeled.

I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to have a list of links that could be updated as needed for sites where sounds could be found.  It would probably be worthwhile to have one list for free sound bites and an second list for pay sites.

I'm not sure if this is an idea that Joe would like to incorporate into the MRH site or if it is something that would be more appropriate for one of the regular model railroading message boards found elsewhere on the net.

This post is just "musings" from someone who knows nothing about sound right now, but I see the potential for doing something with sound sometime "down the road."

Links for sound sources

Dear Russ,

Not intended as a Forum hi-jack, but just such a list of sound-sources,
along with a trainload of other helpful info,

not to mention 620+ modellers all asking the same questions you are,

can be found on the LayoutSound YahooGroup

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LayoutSound/

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

Thank you.

I have it bookmarked.  I don't need to consider sound, yet; but eventually I will do some sound.